[Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Playtesting

[NecroBlade]

Good call on the name swap @Maklar the Silver Prince ! OP updated.

As for placing figures: Ozuul's owner chooses the order. We can add an R&C on that at some point.

[caps]

After reading the playtest results I think that 200 points is a better fit.

I propose we move Ozuul into compatibility testing at 200 points.

@NecroBlade @Astroking112 @Captain Stupendous

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by caps

After reading the playtest results I think that 200 points is a better fit.

I propose we move Ozuul into compatibility testing at 200 points.

@NecroBlade @Astroking112 @Captain Stupendous

Based on his potential to dominate multiplayer games as well as certain matchups, I think I'd prefer to keep the more conservative 210. From what I remember I think that he was played too aggressively in several playtests. A common mistake is to move him into dangerous positions to maximize the number of attacks he can make, after which he gets quickly destroyed by multiple attacks from height.

At this point I'd feel comfortable voting yes to 210, but I think I'd want to see a few more tests at 200.

[caps]

My observation is that C3V almost always overshoots the value on these big-bruiser types, and I don't want to repeat that error. The exceptions would be Incendiborgs and Quahon, but they both have ranged multi-target attacks and in Quahon's case also bonding with solid bonding squads. My instinct was actually to go for 190; 200 was my "conservative" estimate.

I'm not sure what testing at 10 points less is supposed to tell us that we can't already tell from looking at the tests that we have.

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by caps

My observation is that C3V almost always overshoots the value on these big-bruiser types, and I don't want to repeat that error. The exceptions would be Incendiborgs and Quahon, but they both have ranged multi-target attacks and in Quahon's case also bonding with solid bonding squads. My instinct was actually to go for 190; 200 was my "conservative" estimate.

I'm not sure what testing at 10 points less is supposed to tell us that we can't already tell from looking at the tests that we have.

I think that the tests we already have are insufficient to judge his potential in multiplayer matches.

Also, in practices, Ozuul basically has a 2 Range multi-target attack.

[caps]

A 2-range multi-target attack is still not a range 6 normal attack x3 or a range 4/7/9 triple special attack. Those can all occur behind a screen. Ozuul has a huge risk of friendly fire.

I'm sure he'll be good in multiplayer, but I don't think he'll be Braxas-level good.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

I didn't think Ozuul was particularly powerful when I tested him. The issue seems that Ozuul can so easily alter the landscape of the battle, but he doesn't fit super well with other units which would take advantage of the altered landscape if Ozuul's offensive output peeters out. I'd like to try him with the Cathar. Moving figures around is such a powerful ability that warrants a high price point, but it seems like it's just a bit too difficult to capitalize upon with this design.

The design just didn't seem like it was as compelling as it should have been. The mechanic of moving figures adjacent to him can be a little clumsy when you opponent uses it to reposition their figures to height or into a more advantageous configuration. Also, it just seems a bit weak that Ozuul fits so nicely as an "Outsider" but isn't one. I obviously understand the limitations there. Design just seems like it's not where it should be, to me. Hope my ramblings are helpful. If I can help let me know!

Painting my Ozuul right now, going to try to keep it as purple as possible.

[caps]

Had we previously discussed making him an outsider? Seems like a good idea

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

I'd mentioned this idea earlier in the thread, but I don't think anyone responded at the time.

What would you all think of changing Ozuul's species to Outsider? The miniature certainly shares several characteristics of the previewed Outsider faction miniatures from the upcoming c3v faction. Even the "two arms branching out into two more arms" thing he's got going on is seen in another unreleased unit of this faction. Of the units revealed, he'd have some synergy with the Children of the Dark Star, but without access behind the c3v curtain its hard to say in what other ways he'd tie in to the faction's synergy. I think it is just a possible way to tie Ozuul and the Scions (and this master set, by extension) into the greater heroscape canon thematically. You could even make his class "Herald" or "Harbinger" and then develop the story of the set so that he is the first of the Outsiders to arrive on Valhalla.


For reference, here's the links to some of the other outsider miniatures that have been announced in the c3v Public Miniature Information thread:

https://i.imgur.com/8Xv38Yq.jpg

https://cdn.paizo.com/image/product/...71244-8-24.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HzSh6aW.jpg

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...552/image0.jpg

@caps you can view the previous discussion starting here.

I’m still in favor of Outsider as a species.

[caps]

I'm in favor of Outsider here. The synergy isn't particularly strong and I don't think it really impacts his value.

[Maklar the Silver Prince]

Originally Posted by caps

I'm in favor of Outsider here. The synergy isn't particularly strong and I don't think it really impacts his value.

Not sure where the Outsider squad design is at these days, but if it's anything like how it was eons ago when I tested them, Ozuul should have some changes to his power set to better match him to the faction mechanically.

[caps]

Originally Posted by Maklar the Silver Prince

Not sure where the Outsider squad design is at these days, but if it's anything like how it was eons ago when I tested them, Ozuul should have some changes to his power set to better match him to the faction mechanically.

No. I would oppose changing Ozuul to Outsider under those conditions.