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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #13  
Old September 1st, 2020, 10:34 AM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

Another fun thematic pair to try would be using Red Tornado to fly over enemies to set up an ideal Cry for Justice attempt. Canary + Tornado + MM II + Batman/Fate could be neat.
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  #14  
Old September 1st, 2020, 12:33 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

Is there a strong reason the OM moving has to be to Champion cards? It does feel like with the past few designs, the JL faction has shifted more and more to just being Champions. Maybe that's inevitable, but it's also kind of a bummer.
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  #15  
Old September 1st, 2020, 12:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

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Is there a strong reason the OM moving has to be to Champion cards? It does feel like with the past few designs, the JL faction has shifted more and more to just being Champions. Maybe that's inevitable, but it's also kind of a bummer.
Mainly just uniformity with Cry for Justice. Not against opening it up if desired, just wasn’t sure it was necessary with Black Canary I and II already pairing well with her other notable factional ties.

As for it being more Champion focused with recent designs, I’m not sure what you mean by that. If you’re saying the recent designs are limited to Champion callouts/synergies, I don’t see how that’s the case. If anything, these last few have been more open in terms of being great JL drafts while still being great general designs as well. Fate, Hawkgirl, Aquaman...none are limited to Champion armies, whereas the JL marker hubs require specific classes to come online. Hawkwoman and Black Canary being a bit more limited shouldn’t be a bad thing given Hawkgirl (Shayera) is a Warrior which is a common JL marker class, and Black Canary I is a Vigilante which is as well. Both being good drafts for them as well. So I’m a bit confused by that statement.
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  #16  
Old September 1st, 2020, 01:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

Pretty Bird is pretty cool. Cry for Justice seems a bit of a stretch thematically, to me. Not sure why her canary cry would get more powerful when others have wounds. Kind of feels like synergy for the sake of synergy rather than something thematic. Reusing Canary Cry SA seems fine to me, since the design otherwise plays totally differently.

Also Cry for Justice is a comic arc that Black Canary doesn't really feature in much. So maybe we could save that name for someone in that arc?
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  #17  
Old September 1st, 2020, 01:22 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

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Pretty Bird is pretty cool. Cry for Justice seems a bit of a stretch thematically, to me. Not sure why her canary cry would get more powerful when others have wounds. Kind of feels like synergy for the sake of synergy rather than something thematic. Reusing Canary Cry SA seems fine to me, since the design otherwise plays totally differently.

Also Cry for Justice is a comic arc that Black Canary doesn't really feature in much. So maybe we could save that name for someone in that arc?
Typically people fight harder when their team is hurting/dying. It’s been represented with Thing I, Starfire, Colossus AoA, and Raphael to name a few off the top of my head. It’s also meant to represent a slight unwillingness to be as ruthless with it unless the situation really needs it.

No interest in reusing the SA. It’s been on her first 2 versions already, and it features no synergistic value to be using a SA.
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  #18  
Old September 1st, 2020, 01:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

Fighting harder sure. But seems weird in her Cry to me.

I guess I'm not really seeing the need for this design, when we already have a Black Canary that gets JL synergies from being a vigilante. Why would I want to bring the old one in a JL army if this one is going to be a straight upgrade? As far as I can tell the whole point of the JL designs were to tie the older cards together into a functioning faction. This one seems redundant to me.
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  #19  
Old September 1st, 2020, 02:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

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Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Fighting harder sure. But seems weird in her Cry to me.

I guess I'm not really seeing the need for this design, when we already have a Black Canary that gets JL synergies from being a vigilante. Why would I want to bring the old one in a JL army if this one is going to be a straight upgrade? As far as I can tell the whole point of the JL designs were to tie the older cards together into a functioning faction. This one seems redundant to me.
Even more reason why this one shouldn’t have the SA. They’re supposed to play differently, and it will.

As for why ever take Black Canary I in a JL army? Because she has an awesome multi-normal Attack, a great SA, and can give Green Arrow I or II a free attack. She’ll also likely be a little cheaper. Same reason Green Arrow I, Wonder Woman I and II, Superman I and II, Batman I and II etc. are all still viable picks. These aren’t meant to negate those from being taken in a JL build, they are, like any different version, offering something different based on your needs for the army. This is JL Chairwoman Black Canary. If it doesn’t interest you that’s perfectly fine.
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  #20  
Old September 1st, 2020, 02:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

If they play differently and one isn't better than the other (Aside from the point differential) then I'm happy. Just want to make sure we're on the right path.

It'd be cool if we could have a single extra game with the exact same armies but just swapping in the old BC, just to see how they compare.
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  #21  
Old September 1st, 2020, 04:28 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Is there a strong reason the OM moving has to be to Champion cards? It does feel like with the past few designs, the JL faction has shifted more and more to just being Champions. Maybe that's inevitable, but it's also kind of a bummer.
Mainly just uniformity with Cry for Justice. Not against opening it up if desired, just wasn’t sure it was necessary with Black Canary I and II already pairing well with her other notable factional ties.

As for it being more Champion focused with recent designs, I’m not sure what you mean by that. If you’re saying the recent designs are limited to Champion callouts/synergies, I don’t see how that’s the case. If anything, these last few have been more open in terms of being great JL drafts while still being great general designs as well. Fate, Hawkgirl, Aquaman...none are limited to Champion armies, whereas the JL marker hubs require specific classes to come online. Hawkwoman and Black Canary being a bit more limited shouldn’t be a bad thing given Hawkgirl (Shayera) is a Warrior which is a common JL marker class, and Black Canary I is a Vigilante which is as well. Both being good drafts for them as well. So I’m a bit confused by that statement.
I guess my thinking was, before Wonder Woman III, a lot of the strategy of the faction was how to army build to get those markers. Champions were obviously the best additions, but a lot of iconic JLers didn't have Champion versions, so I ended up mixing in a lot of non-Champions like Black Canary I.

With all the current designs going on, there's suddenly a crapton of cool new options for playing iconic Leaguers as Champions. And to be clear - not knocking that at all, it's awesome.

I guess my concern is now seeing a design that just calls out Champions, cause that's not really what the JL is. This is the first design where I'm getting the feeling I'm being punished for drafting designs that are in the JL class list, but aren't Champions.

Personal opinion - if it's not broken, I'd just dump all the Champion callouts on the card. If we're going to have a GA callout, just make it an Oliver Queen or Green Arrow callout like BC I. That'd make her a generalist, so you could theoretically make a BoP army around her, even if we do a dedicated BoP Canary later. Just seems like a win/win to me.
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  #22  
Old September 1st, 2020, 04:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

Like how the new Canary Cry uses a d20 roll and thus Batman III can be a good teammate. I'd drop the base def down to 4 if you are giving her an auto shield now. Batman was only reluctantly approved for the base 5+1 defense due to him being one of the overall top DC martial artists.
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  #23  
Old September 1st, 2020, 05:03 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

Even then, she's still better than Bats at taking hits from range.
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  #24  
Old September 1st, 2020, 05:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Black Canary (III) (Breathing)

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Originally Posted by Lord Pyre View Post
Fighting harder sure. But seems weird in her Cry to me.
Oh man, total opposite. To me the scream has always felt like an effort based thing. It's why she doesn't use it all the time -- because it takes a lot more out of her. But channeling raw emotion/adrenaline in order to scream harder? Feels really spot on to me.

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