Throw your order markers away!

[Lord_Mortis]

For me, after playing games of Warhammer Fantasy for years, and watching the battle scenes from movies like Braveheart, Lord of the Rings, and Narnia, when I play a 1500+ game of Heroscape, and only a few units of my horde army is moving each round, it just seems a little...odd.

I've come up with a system of playing large games of Heroscape that still incorporate turn markers, but they are used differently. This still makes choices like Dund and Spartacus worth their points. When I get some time, I'll post it.

For now, though, I had thought of another way to get that "horde movement" feel as seen in the previously mentioned movies. When I'm fighting battles of 1000+ pts, I have several common squads in my army, especially when using Orcs. For those that want a horde movement feel to their army but still want to incorporate the use of markers, when placing order markers, any markers placed on common squads/heroes means that all figures for that card type get to take a turn.

For example, if I have 5 squads of Arrow Gruts, and I place a turn marker on the Arrow Grut card, then all 5 squads of Arrow Gruts get to take a turn, plus whatever beast they bonded with. It would speed things up a bit but at the same time incorporate order markers. Might suck for someone who takes only unique army cards, but if they knew the rules were going to be like that going in and still chose mostly uniques, well they couldn't say they weren't warned.

[Pallindromemaster]

In a big game once my group split up our army into groups of 200 points and used each one as an army card. An order marker on a 200 point stack would move all figures in it. Similar to your idea, but perhaps more conducive to the use of Uniques...

[Skeletor]

I think we should include Pizza order markers

Where if you lose the game you have to order and buy the pizza

[Raudulfr Shieldcrusher]

Originally Posted by Skeletor

I think we should include Pizza order markers

Where if you lose the game you have to order and buy the pizza

That is evil! I love it!

Our group's rule is: the first one out has to put away all of the figures.

[Barbell Hero]

That rule sucks. I'd be putting away figures most of my life.

[Lord_Paul]

YES! "Pizza order" markers would be great!

On the topic, though, I personally would go by the offical rules, mainly because most of my hreoscape playing occurs at tournaments...

[Hatchetbill]

I think most everyone would agree that one of the best aspects of Heroscape is how creative it allows the players to be. So maybe the creators didn't intend this feature to extend to the game rules themselves but I've seen some really neat house rules from this community that help make this game even better than I think the creators probably anticipated.

In fact I've seen numerous diversions from what the creators actually marketed including custom figures, waterfalls, custom terrain rules, adjusting the values of character cards, pushing rules, jumping rules, etc and I don't think removing the order markers is any different. Heck, a good portion of this site is specifically dedicated to modifying the game.

We first bought Heroscape a year or two ago and played it just as described in the rule book but found something was not right. Battles were not running smoothly, a lot of units that were not currently relevant to the battle were being moved. Basically the battle similation just didn't seem to be there. It was a great game but we were not getting the experience that we wanted.

We found removing the markers made the game faster paced and just more fun overall. You can react and create a strategy after every move. True, it does occasionally result in a back and forth slugfest between two characters on the battlefield until one dies but I don't think thats a bad thing. If you've ever read the Illiad you'll see that these seemingly isolated incidents that can happen on battlefields are actually really cool when they happen.

I think that the fact that people are so willing to go through the trouble of tweeking this game and tailor making it to get the experience they want, is a real testament to how great a game it really is.

Besides, if I'm dishing out all this cash for the game I'll change whatever rules I want and call it whatever I want to call it

[Fatespuppet]

This is a long thread so a lot of what I say has most likely been mentioned.

I started playing HS about 3 months ago. My friends played it steadily a couple years back, and then stopped when the person with all the stuff left the area. When I brought mine over we all had to learn the rules again. OMs were something that suprised them. Apparently they'd never used them in the past. They simply alternated units making sure every unit was used before rolling initiative again.

The first game with the markers was a bit of a wake up call for them. One guy actually got mad and stormed out because he lost his figure with all 3 OMs before he even got to go. After finishing, the rest realized how different the game played, and they said they'd never go back to playing without them.

OMs, in my opinion, are as essential as attack/defense dice to the game. You must think multiple turns ahead or you'll wind up making a huge mistake you didn't anticipate. You shift your targets to remove units with unrevealed markers, you tend to avoid stacking one character with more then 2 in case of a couple bad rolls, and you find yourself starting to think multiple rounds ahead instead of just one turn. All of these things are good for the game.

The only idea I've had about altering the game's current mechanics is to add a clock. Blood Bowl is a turn based game with a (IIRC) 2 minute per turn clock. You must declare your moves and finish them BEFORE time runs out. I'm considering suggesting this for some of our players who like to spend 5 to 10 minutes contemplating OM placement. 30 seconds to place markers. Anything not placed doesn't get used. :P

[HS ~ KNT]

This is a big issue, as I've just read, but I never thought it to be all that big...

My friends and I play with order markers the majority of the time. When introducing people to Heroscape, I play three games with them, in this order: A basic game, a 'Master game' with out OM, and then finally a Master game. By slowly introducing the elements of the game, I've seen people get interested quicker. Instead of them having to figure out Order markers, height advantage, water, etc, etc, all at once, you play as they learn.

So I like to think of games without order markers as being teaching aides.

When I'm playing solo, I play without order markers as well. Instead I try to think how the commander of that army would react to a situation. That's 'cause when I play solo, I'm just piting one side against the other in my head.

~Neko, to tired to think anymore.

[Fatespuppet]

Originally Posted by HS ~ KNT

That's 'cause when I play solo, I'm just piting one side against the other in my head.

Hehe, "I win in 5 moves. Man I'm on a roll."

My solo games tend to be me trying not to side with one army or the other. If you cheat while playing against yourself, does that mean you win or lose? :P

[HS ~ KNT]

Originally Posted by Fatespuppet

Hehe, "I win in 5 moves. Man I'm on a roll."

My solo games tend to be me trying not to side with one army or the other. If you cheat while playing against yourself, does that mean you win or lose? :P

Winners never cheat, and cheaters never win? Or something like that?

I find it quite easy to balance my loyalty when playing two armies. Maybe it's cause I'm a generally neutral person... I try to see the battle from both sides, so that no matter what side of the stick I'm on when I'm actually play against someone, I have something effective I can do.

~Neko, no better off on the awake scale than at 12:00 last night

[a midget in a bikini]

this is easy for any game move 2 squads 2 leaders and if ur out of leaders move 4 squads and vice versa