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  #37  
Old January 10th, 2016, 09:58 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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Re: order markers, I would say that an AotP army would not use order markers. A mixed army would put Order Markers on the Planeswalker to take a turn like in AotP (decide which AotP card to activate, summon units if the chosen card is a planeswalker, etc.). My reasoning is that a planeswalker is implicitly "bonding" with the units it summons.
Now, would a mixed army need to put OMs on summoned units to activate them after the planeswalker is dead? Probably? I think?
In AOTP you choose to take a turn with one of your army cards. The bonding is really only present when you are summoning. I think that if if that's the case should be in order to take a turn with a card it requires an order marker.
I disagree. I think this is imposing a rule from Heroscape onto Arena--that is only necessary when one is using an army from both systems.
I agree that its imposing a system, I wonder how else we could mesh the two. Unless after an army using OMs uses them up, that player simply resets their OMs. If that's the case do the players still roll for initiative, if one is using OMS and the other isn't?
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  #38  
Old January 10th, 2016, 11:35 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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I agree that its imposing a system, I wonder how else we could mesh the two. Unless after an army using OMs uses them up, that player simply resets their OMs. If that's the case do the players still roll for initiative, if one is using OMS and the other isn't?
My basic guideline is to use whatever rules are more restrictive, but only when necessary. Thus a pure AotP army would not use OMs, while a mixed one would use OMs, but would treat the Planeswalker and his summons much like Kurrock and the Elementals, in order to try to keep the feel when using AotP as similar as possible. I would say that yes, initiative would be rolled every round--there are powers in Scape that depend on that.

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  #39  
Old January 11th, 2016, 10:06 AM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

Couple problems. If you can't unsummon Heroscape units, then that screws a huge portion of Jace's gameplan. Oh, you draft Jace, okay, I'll draft an all HS army! Similarly, if you can't enchant HS units, then Liliana's spell that weakens an enchanted creature (I forget what it's called) won't work on HS units...

So under your current rules, some of the Planeswalkers are artificially nerfed. I think the goal should be to be able to use all the units to their max potential.

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  #40  
Old January 11th, 2016, 10:13 AM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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Originally Posted by The B.I.V. View Post
So under your current rules, some of the Planeswalkers are artificially nerfed. I think the goal should be to be able to use all the units to their max potential.
I don't see this as much as a problem especially if you allow augmenting the planeswalker deck with spells from a different color. Blue by itself has a tough time but blue green works.

more expansions should also help. already black is more comet at I've with hs.

finally that is how drafting works. Jace is clearly a counter draft in the same way the Warriors of Asha or repulsed are.


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  #41  
Old January 11th, 2016, 11:55 AM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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Originally Posted by The B.I.V. View Post
Couple problems. If you can't unsummon Heroscape units, then that screws a huge portion of Jace's gameplan. Oh, you draft Jace, okay, I'll draft an all HS army! Similarly, if you can't enchant HS units, then Liliana's spell that weakens an enchanted creature (I forget what it's called) won't work on HS units...

So under your current rules, some of the Planeswalkers are artificially nerfed. I think the goal should be to be able to use all the units to their max potential.
So? If you draft Cyprien and I draft all Soulborgs then your army is nerfed... It's the same principal.

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  #42  
Old January 11th, 2016, 05:33 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

I dunno. The more I hear, the more I realize how different these two games are. I mean, HS has initiative and AotP has the uber-powerful Plainswalkers that HS really doesn't have an equivalent for. I'm much more in favor of Trex's idea to create the Valkyrie Generals as Plainswalkers and then incorporate them and their respective HS units into AotP. Then you're comparing apples to apples and I think it would work well. Trying to combine the two games into one Frankenscape's monster is becoming much less appealing the more I think about it...

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  #43  
Old January 11th, 2016, 06:28 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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Originally Posted by The B.I.V. View Post
I dunno. The more I hear, the more I realize how different these two games are. I mean, HS has initiative and AotP has the uber-powerful Plainswalkers that HS really doesn't have an equivalent for. I'm much more in favor of Trex's idea to create the Valkyrie Generals as Plainswalkers and then incorporate them and their respective HS units into AotP. Then you're comparing apples to apples and I think it would work well. Trying to combine the two games into one Frankenscape's monster is becoming much less appealing the more I think about it...
I don't think it needs to be that complicated. I'll be trying it out this week, I think.

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  #44  
Old January 14th, 2016, 09:37 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

So, in the current iteration being discussed here, I'd like to check if I understand these facts correctly. This is not meant to be a full restatement of the rules, just four points I'd like to check. Thank you

1) To use AoTP units, you have to have a Planeswalker.

2) If you have a pure AoTP army, you don't use order markers (or essentially just put every order marker on the Planeswalker and play each as a normal AoTP turn).

3) If you have a mixed Scape/AoTP army, you use order markers for Scape units and the Planeswalker only-- you don't place order markers on any other AoTP unit.

4) When you reveal the Planeswalker's order marker in a mixed army, that indicates that you are taking a normal AoTP turn (not necessarily with the Planeswalker).


Am I getting that stuff right? Thanks

edit: Additionally, with this method, do you only play spell cards during an AoTP turn?

Last edited by The Backlog; January 14th, 2016 at 10:31 PM.
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  #45  
Old January 15th, 2016, 09:09 AM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

After a lot of playtest, we agreed on additional rules in our playgroup (still in test) :

1) If the planeswalker is defeated, all "summons" are removed from the board. The reason on that is that usually, the planeswalker is the strongest unit on the board, and if people dash and rush, it usually wipes the board pretty quickly (mainly Chandra, with her 1 damage action). So, by removing the summons (which thematically makes sense), the planeswalker wont make a huge rush. It made us play more carefully

2) If planeswalker is defeated, he can't play spells (obviously)

3) At the start of the game, if you're playing against a non-AoTP army you can remove cards from your deck (to be tested), however, the deck value is still 200. It was mosly because of blue, since there's a lot of interactions with other colored cards. This is still in test to see if it's balanced.
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  #46  
Old January 15th, 2016, 10:15 AM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Backlog View Post
So, in the current iteration being discussed here, I'd like to check if I understand these facts correctly. This is not meant to be a full restatement of the rules, just four points I'd like to check. Thank you

1) To use AoTP units, you have to have a Planeswalker.

2) If you have a pure AoTP army, you don't use order markers (or essentially just put every order marker on the Planeswalker and play each as a normal AoTP turn).

3) If you have a mixed Scape/AoTP army, you use order markers for Scape units and the Planeswalker only-- you don't place order markers on any other AoTP unit.

4) When you reveal the Planeswalker's order marker in a mixed army, that indicates that you are taking a normal AoTP turn (not necessarily with the Planeswalker).


Am I getting that stuff right? Thanks

edit: Additionally, with this method, do you only play spell cards during an AoTP turn?
Yes, except you are allowed to put OMs on summons. Think of the planeswalker and her summons like Kurrock and the elementals.

I'm not sure about when you play spell cards. That's a good question, actually. I might require a planeswalker turn but I'm not sure either way yet.

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  #47  
Old January 15th, 2016, 03:29 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Yes, except you are allowed to put OMs on summons. Think of the planeswalker and her summons like Kurrock and the elementals.

I'm not sure about when you play spell cards. That's a good question, actually. I might require a planeswalker turn but I'm not sure either way yet.
RE: Kurrock- I looked up that unit and see exactly what you mean. Thank you.

I think I'll personally start out requiring a planeswalker turn to play the spell card. It feels to me like, in this hybrid scape/magic game that the spell cards should function as additional abilities on the Planeswalker's army card. These abilities just require you to have the corresponding card in your hand in order to use them.
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  #48  
Old January 15th, 2016, 03:56 PM
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Re: Heroscape & Arena of the Planeswalker

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Originally Posted by The Backlog View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Yes, except you are allowed to put OMs on summons. Think of the planeswalker and her summons like Kurrock and the elementals.

I'm not sure about when you play spell cards. That's a good question, actually. I might require a planeswalker turn but I'm not sure either way yet.
RE: Kurrock- I looked up that unit and see exactly what you mean. Thank you.

I think I'll personally start out requiring a planeswalker turn to play the spell card. It feels to me like, in this hybrid scape/magic game that the spell cards should function as additional abilities on the Planeswalker's army card. These abilities just require you to have the corresponding card in your hand in order to use them.
The way I did it was simple, Planes walker and creature cards are just like Heroscape cards except:

Creatures must be summoned onto the battle field first (like the Rechetcs without a D20 Roll).

Planes walkers have the following ablities:

Blue Magic:
While Jace is on the battlefield, after revealing an order marker on any Army Card you control, draw one Blue spell card from your reserve. Each turn, you may play up to 3 spell cards before moving or after attacking.

Blue Summon:
Before moving, you may summon up to 2 Blue squads and/or Blue heroes. All figures summoned must be placed within 5 clear sight spaces of Jace.

Blue Command:
Instead of taking a turn with Jace you may take a turn with any Blue hero or squad you control.

It is simple way to incorporate the AotP units into the scape world.


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