Starting Zone Woes

[Blackrock]

How many people actually play with strict start zones? I usually do, but I may have to adjust that method soon. I just put together an orc army I'd like to experiment with, 500 points, but all the figures together require 28 spaces! The largest start zone I've ever seen on a battlefield is 24. Would it be fair to consider it a house rule to just do away with limitations and expand your designated start zone just far enough to accommodate your army, should it be perfectly legal within the set point limit?
I know it's a rule to discard any figures that don't fit into the starting zone, but unless they're zombies that's a real thorn in the side; it doesn't seem fair to have to off your own men at the start just because there's so many of them. If it fits within 500 points, it's fair! Isn't it?

[tvar]

You can always house rule whatever you want. If your friends are fine with you extending your start zone, go for it. If you're going to play in a tournament or something though, you're going to be out of luck.

My friends and I are still using 400 point armies, so start zone limits haven't really limited any of us yet.

[The Super Atheist]

Originally Posted by Blackrock

How many people actually play with strict start zones? I usually do, but I may have to adjust that method soon. I just put together an orc army I'd like to experiment with, 500 points, but all the figures together require 28 spaces! The largest start zone I've ever seen on a battlefield is 24. Would it be fair to consider it a house rule to just do away with limitations and expand your designated start zone just far enough to accommodate your army, should it be perfectly legal within the set point limit?
I know it's a rule to discard any figures that don't fit into the starting zone, but unless they're zombies that's a real thorn in the side; it doesn't seem fair to have to off your own men at the start just because there's so many of them. If it fits within 500 points, it's fair! Isn't it?

I have a battlefield set up with 39 start zone spaces. just increase the start zone spaces, it's easier.

[Blackrock]

Originally Posted by tvar

You can always house rule whatever you want. If your friends are fine with you extending your start zone, go for it. If you're going to play in a tournament or something though, you're going to be out of luck.

My friends and I are still using 400 point armies, so start zone limits haven't really limited any of us yet.

Yes, tournaments are my main issue; I suppose house situations are no biggy. It just seems like a bit of a gyp. If you use orcs, you're gonna have a lot of numbers. And it's those numbers that you need to assure victory. If you bring any army into a 500-point tournament without any battlefields big enough, you would definately be out of luck. Are orcs just not popular in the tournament scene? The army in question...

Tornak - 100
Swog x2 - 50
Heavy x2 - 140
Blade x2 - 80
Arrow x2 - 80
Total - 450

Oh snap! I just realized I counted the Swog Riders for twice their actual worth. This army is no good without Nerak! Why can't he be easier to come across?! Either Nerak or another squad of Arrow Gruts or Blade Gruts plus Isamu... Well, that would still make the army even bigger! What's an orc fan to do?

[Fatespuppet]

I think the limit on starting zone spaces is done in an effort to keep squads from completely overpowering the game. I like this fact about the game, so we tend to give fairly restrictive start zones in my games.

You could always house rule anything so long as your opponents agree, so if you want more space just add on.

[Blackrock]

Originally Posted by Fatespuppet

I think the limit on starting zone spaces is done in an effort to keep squads from completely overpowering the game. I like this fact about the game, so we tend to give fairly restrictive start zones in my games.

You could always house rule anything so long as your opponents agree, so if you want more space just add on.

Well, I guess that makes sense. The power with orcs is in their squads though; I guess if I get more Blades & Arrows I can work with 3 of one or both and little more, with more heroes. I'd like to use Ornak, or even Brunak (not an orc but I have never used him in draft or otherwise).

[Altron_ZERO]

i never play with 24 max starting zones.

[zettian_guard]

When the number of figures is greater than the number of starting spots, our group decided to just leave the excess figures off of the board until a starting spot opens up.

[Riggler]

Originally Posted by Fatespuppet

I think the limit on starting zone spaces is done in an effort to keep squads from completely overpowering the game. I like this fact about the game, so we tend to give fairly restrictive start zones in my games.

You could always house rule anything so long as your opponents agree, so if you want more space just add on.

This is a very valid explanation. 24 Starting zones are generally thought fair for 400-600 pt armies based on analysis of Hasbro's official maps.

All official scenerios limit starting zones to a set number of spaces. Hence, it would seem that if we follow the official examples of battlefields and scenerios that starting zones limitation are to indeed discourage an enormous amount of cheap squads.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Originally Posted by Blackrock

Well, I guess that makes sense. The power with orcs is in their squads though; I guess if I get more Blades & Arrows I can work with 3 of one or both and little more, with more heroes. I'd like to use Ornak, or even Brunak (not an orc but I have never used him in draft or otherwise).

I think the problem is you are trying to use both Blades and Heavies. You shouldn't do that too often. Go with one or the other. I prefer heavies, though, and you need starting spaces, so let's remove both Blade Squads and add a Heavy Grut squad. We still have 60 points left and 4 starting spaces, so let's put in two more swogs. Isamu can then replace a Heavy since you have so many of those anyways.
So we have:
Tornak
Heavy Grutsx3 (-1)
Swogsx4
Arrow Grutsx2
Isamu
There you go.

[Jexik]

I like squads too, but 24 is a pretty reasonable number. Adding Krug or Grimnak to that army will shave off several hexes.

2x Heavy Gruts 140
Tornak 240
Krug 360
2x Arrow Gruts 440
2x Swog Rider 490
Isamu 500 (23 hexes)

I like the idea behind Bloody's army, but it's 29 hexes.

[Eirikr]

Originally Posted by Fatespuppet

I think the limit on starting zone spaces is done in an effort to keep squads from completely overpowering the game. I like this fact about the game, so we tend to give fairly restrictive start zones in my games.

You could always house rule anything so long as your opponents agree, so if you want more space just add on.

There is no rule designating the size of a starting zone. It is entirely up to you what size the starting zone is when you create the map/scenario. Limiting the starting zone to 24 hexes is a common tournament rule and one I tend to follow in my home games but it is not an official heroScape rule so no need to make a house rule or worry about upsetting game balance. Of course if your play group has already established a house rule of 24 hex starting zones then all it requires is to convince them that more is better (or at least not detrimental to them).

I would change up your army a bit anyway. I don't like the heavy Gruts much, mostly because they are so slow. I would switch for blades, and add Mimring to the mix. Say...

Tornak + 100 + 2 hexes
Swog x2 + 50 + 4 hexes
Blade x2 + 80 + 8 hexes
Arrow x3 + 120 + 9 hexes
Mimring + 150 +2 hexes
total 500 pts 25 hexes (drop 1 arrow grut)

I really want Nerak The Glacian Swog Rider so I can complete my Orc collection. He's the exclusive I want the most because I love Orcs. Next I want the Elite Onyx Vipers but nothing compared to Nerak. The problem is I'm just working on getting my 3rd Swog rider and I want 4 so it may be a while before I have a 5th to paint up as Nerak.

If I had more Orcs I would like to see one of the following:

Nerak + 50 + 2 hexes
Arrow x3 + 120 + 12 hexes
Swog x2 + 50 + 6 hexes
Krug +120 +2 hexes
Mimring + 150 +2 hexes
total 490 pts 24 hexes

Or possibly:

Nerak + 50 + 2 hexes
Tornak +100 +2 hexes
Ornak +100 +1 hex
Grimnak +120 +2 hexes
Blades x3 +120 +12 hexes
total 490 pts 19 hexes

Or else:

Nerak + 50 + 2 hexes
Tornak +100 +2 hexes
Grimnak +120 +2 hexes
Heavies x3 +210 +12 hexes
total 480 pts 18 hexes