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  #13  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 11:50 PM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Looks good!

A few notes:

Can we change "Frenchie's Airlift and Drop" to something a little shorter, such as "Frenchie's Airdrop"? It's just a bit of a mouthful right now.

The wording for Cape Glide (the second trigger) seems a tad off right now ... I'm assuming it triggers if he ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than where he was positioned at the start of the move, right? I think the wording needs some tweaking there (no ideas just yet, sorry).

CAPE GLIDE
After being placed on the battlefield by Frenchie’s Airlift And Drop, or if Moon Knight ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than his previous placement, you may add 1 automatic skull to Moon Knight’s normal attack this turn if he attacks an adjacent figure. Moon Knight never takes falling damage.

Looks good overall, though, like I said!

I know the synergies would feel a tad odd, but we are starting to put together more and more Marvel Vigilantes ... I wonder if we shouldn't just go with Vigilante here since it really seems like the most accurate fit?

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  #14  
Old December 23rd, 2011, 11:58 PM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Looks good!

A few notes:

Can we change "Frenchie's Airlift and Drop" to something a little shorter, such as "Frenchie's Airdrop"? It's just a bit of a mouthful right now.

The wording for Cape Glide (the second trigger) seems a tad off right now ... I'm assuming it triggers if he ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than where he was positioned at the start of the move, right? I think the wording needs some tweaking there (no ideas just yet, sorry).

CAPE GLIDE
After being placed on the battlefield by Frenchie’s Airlift And Drop, or if Moon Knight ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than his previous placement, you may add 1 automatic skull to Moon Knight’s normal attack this turn if he attacks an adjacent figure. Moon Knight never takes falling damage.

Looks good overall, though, like I said!

I know the synergies would feel a tad odd, but we are starting to put together more and more Marvel Vigilantes ... I wonder if we shouldn't just go with Vigilante here since it really seems like the most accurate fit?
Is this any better maybe?

Quote:
CAPE GLIDE
After being placed on the battlefield by Frenchie’s Airdrop, or if after moving normally, Moon Knight ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than his previous placement, you may add 1 automatic skull to Moon Knight’s normal attack this turn if he attacks an adjacent figure. Moon Knight never takes falling damage.

Frenchie's Airdrop is doable for sure.

I certainly am still open to Vigilante since that's the original thought.

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3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #15  
Old December 24th, 2011, 12:01 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

I wonder if "original placement" or "placement at the start of the turn" wouldn't clarify better?

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  #16  
Old December 24th, 2011, 12:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Quote:
CAPE GLIDE
After being placed on the battlefield by Frenchie’s Airlift And Drop, or if Moon Knight ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than his placement at the start of the turn, you may add 1 automatic skull to Moon Knight’s normal attack this turn if he attacks an adjacent figure. Moon Knight never takes falling damage.
Quote:
CAPE GLIDE
After being placed on the battlefield by Frenchie’s Airlift And Drop, or if Moon Knight ends his move 5 or more spaces lower than his original placement, you may add 1 automatic skull to Moon Knight’s normal attack this turn if he attacks an adjacent figure. Moon Knight never takes falling damage.
One of those above?

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TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #17  
Old December 24th, 2011, 12:27 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

I prefer original placement. It's clear but concise.
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  #18  
Old December 24th, 2011, 09:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

I think either of those do the job.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #19  
Old December 24th, 2011, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Okay, I know the breathing period isn't up, but I ran some HH tests for him because I had time and I just wanted to gauge where to price him. Besides, nobody here knows this character close to the way I do and considering the earlier comments that were more about wording and not about changing powers or power level, I figured he wasn't going to change from now until later tonight.

Anyway, I guess I was closer to his cost than others may have thought initially.

Vs. Mockinbird at 130 points:
1. Moon Knight wins with 4 wounds on T4R2.
2. Mockingbird wins with 1 wound on T2R3.

Vs. Echo at 130 points:
1. Echo wins with 3 wounds on T4R3.
2. Moon Knight wins with 0 wounds on T1R2.

Vs. Batgirl at 130 points:
1. Batgirl wins with 2 wounds on T3R2.
2. Moon Knight wins with 4 wounds on T4R2.

I will do more of course, but just wanted to point out that he should end up closer to 150 than 200. Maybe 140- 150 when taking Airdrop and Cape Glide into consideration. I tested on HB Gehenna, which has plenty of height for him to climb to, but Mockingbird can close in quick with her Pole Vault to get engaged to him before he can get all the way up the ladder, Echo can Mimic to suite the desired situation and Batgirl can Grapple at will w/o leaving engagement attacks. While MK has 1 more life than any of them, MB has same defense, Echo can Mimic the same defense as MK and BG can get defense +3 boost from rolling 9+. Mockingbird can lower his attack with Mocking Words (and did) in conjunction with Counter Strike. Echo can give him wounds (and did) with Mirrored Counter Strike and Batgirl can give wounds (not this time) with Defensive Precognition 9. Actually, the only reason MK won the one game vs. her was because with 4 wounds vs. her 2 wounds (from Crescent Darts to bypass her Precog9), he gambled and moved onto ladder while adjacent and attack with height. She rolled >9 for Precog9 and had defense of 7 just ready to put the last wound on him. But Khonshu was smiling down on him and he rolled all 5 skulls vs. her 2 shields to kill her.

So the moral of the story is that the vast majority of the time that Moon Knight is going to be fighting, he's more in line with a 130 point unit. He never takes falling damage (situational) and will occasionally get a single big attack after Cape Glide which is also situational since he doesn't have grapple to get him to height easy and only has a move of 5. So in army tests he can get away with that nice big Cape Glide attack once in awhile, but then again, the map has to have height greater than 5 for him to have a chance to use it other than after Airdrop. His Crescent Darts are a saving grace for him to bypass special defense on occasion, though for only 1 wound, but it helps. Of course he can only attack 1 target with each Dart, so it keeps it from being too dangerous against the likes of GL's and Flash types.

Regardless of his class being Vigilante or Fighter, neither should affect his cost as Mockingbird has Agent synergies, Echo has Vigilante synergies, and Batgirl has sidekick synergy/benefits with Vigilantes. So their costs reflect that, and we have seen what he did against them.

Anyway, taking my fanboy hat off, while I would love for him to be more powerful, I'm perfectly fine with him as he's shaking out to be so far. This version is more in line with him early in his career and is what the Airdrop and Cape Glide help represent, and they take up two powers and he needs Crescent Darts to be ideal. If I ever made another version of him, it could be the more current and badass one with more of an armored costume and more badass fighting abilities. But for now, I just don't want to overpower him just for the sake of keeping up with the Jones'.

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon

Last edited by Hahma; December 24th, 2011 at 10:24 AM.
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  #20  
Old December 24th, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

If you like him as is, I'm cool with him at 130. Might be more of a reason to stay Fighter/Crime Fighter then, though, so he doesn't double up with Echo.

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DISCLAIMER: C3G claims no ownership of the characters or artwork used for C3G customs. All rights for the characters belong to their respective publishers/creators. C3G cards are not intended for sale, and C3G does not authorize any party to profit from C3G cards.

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  #21  
Old December 24th, 2011, 11:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Yeah, and it would give a nice lower priced Fighter.

Just did 2 more HH's. This time vs. Green Arrow (Connor) and GA won both times. With 2 wounds on T6R2 and with 2 wounds on T3R4. GA's range forced MK to chase him, so MK had no reason to get to height for Cape Glide from the building near his SZ because Connor would just get to the top of his building and shoot from range all day long. So GA had height all the time and MK tried Crescent Darts sometimes for a couple wounds while staying on shadow below, and chased him to the top of the building in game two but GA was on the only single spaced height up there and while they went at it for awhile hand to hand, GA had the advantage with CCE and attack/def 4 with height. MK could have tried CD's some more, but he wanted to get some good die rolls to hopefully put multiple wounds on GA, not just have a chance of putting only 1 wound on him.

Believe me, I wouldn't mind him being a bit higher priced but that would mean giving him a better attack (5) but then it would make his ranged attack with his club too much as compared to the ones from DD and Mockingbird with similar club attacks. He does fall in line with Mockingbird, Echo and Batgirl and some others w/o superpowers that are supposed to be awesome melee fighters, but for some reason we have have some huge disparity between some units that are supposed to be very good melee fighters in the 150 and less range and some that leap in cost a vast amount.

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TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #22  
Old December 24th, 2011, 11:51 AM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Well Green Arrow Connor is one of the best hand-to-hand fighters in the DCU as well if that helps any.

I think the disparity between them and some of the higer costed Vigilante/Crime Fighter types is that the higher costed ones (like Batman, Punisher, Daredevil, etc.) are more used to tangling with supers and holding their own.

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  #23  
Old December 24th, 2011, 12:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Well Green Arrow Connor is one of the best hand-to-hand fighters in the DCU as well if that helps any.

I think the disparity between them and some of the higer costed Vigilante/Crime Fighter types is that the higher costed ones (like Batman, Punisher, Daredevil, etc.) are more used to tangling with supers and holding their own.
Oh for sure. I mean Bats has all the gadgets available, Punisher has all the weapons available, DD has Radar Sense, Black Canary is one of the best fighters in DC and she has Canary Cry to help. Huntress, Elektra and Black Widow also have stuff going for them as well. Shang-Chi doesn't have any super powers though, but is represented leaps and bounds above everyone else on fighting skill alone. So by comparison on fighting skill alone represented on a design, he is much better than any other unit we have that doesn't have super powers. I just didn't want to up the ante with Moon Knight to try to keep up, as it seems some pure fighting powers are getting stronger than previous "top of X universe are".

Hand of fate is moving and the finger points to you
...Iron Maiden - The Wicker Man

TUTORIAL FOR RE-BASING FIGURES


3hrs 43mins 32secs = 1242nd of 8808 overall - 1988 Honolulu Marathon
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  #24  
Old December 24th, 2011, 12:06 PM
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Re: The Book of Moon Knight - Design Phase

Sorry, I just had a cool design for Shang-Chi and he worked out to not be too crazy expensive without any changes so I didn't see any reason to change him.
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