Which unit is more broken:the 4th mass or legionnaires?

[feekonea]

Originally Posted by MegadeV

The 4th Mass. is an excellent unit, but far from broken. A defense of 2 is proof enough. The Romans rarely get used in our games and usually get slaughtered when they are used. However, we usually play at least 600 point armies with 4 players and plenty of hills so slow melee units don't fare too well.

yes but they can be easily upgraded when gathered with an all valiant army, plus their firepower, range, and amount of men should be able to gain ground quickly, which should give them another dice for height. plus if they're such a great unit shouldnt they be at least a 100 points? 70 points is pretty cheap for a great unit.

[MegadeV]

The 4th Mass' Move, Range, Attack and Defense are all lower than the Krav Maga. There is no way they should be priced the same.

Edit: The Krav Maga's special is better IMO.

[Jason]

"The 4th Mass' Move, Range, Attack and Defense are all lower than the Krav Maga. There is no way they should be priced the same."

You are conveniently mentioing the Krav are Unique whereas the 4th Mass are common. That makes a HUGE difference

[feekonea]

In addtion to jasons post, its easie to upgrade the 4th mass...
4th mass upgrade ablities=height, valiant army bonus, WTF, marcus, raelin, taelord

krav upgrade abilities= thorgrim, finn, height, taelord, raelin

thats one more chance to upgrade them, plus it is a whole lot easier considering you have to spend massive amounts of points to upgrade krav (everythng cost extra points, except height) than 4th mass ( they're 2 special abilities on the card dont cost you any points)

[toddrew]

Also 4th Mass have 4th attack Game's all about maximizing the attack.

[jdtenor]

feekonea wrote

In addtion to jasons post, its easie to upgrade the 4th mass...
4th mass upgrade ablities=height, valiant army bonus, WTF, marcus, raelin, taelord

krav upgrade abilities= thorgrim, finn, height, taelord, raelin

thats one more chance to upgrade them, plus it is a whole lot easier considering you have to spend massive amounts of points to upgrade krav (everythng cost extra points, except height) than 4th mass ( they're 2 special abilities on the card dont cost you any points)

Most poster agree that there are way better choices then the 4th but a few just don't get it so here's real battle situation

here's my 400 pt army

Syvarris 100pts

Krav Maga 100 pts

Sgt. Drake 110 pts

Deadeye Dan 60 pts

Guilty Mc Creech 30 pts

Good luck with your 4th & go ahead pick tealord so you can waste half your points!

I'll be checking for your 400 pt army?

[MegadeV]

Originally Posted by feekonea

In addtion to jasons post, its easie to upgrade the 4th mass...
4th mass upgrade ablities=height, valiant army bonus, WTF, marcus, raelin, taelord

krav upgrade abilities= thorgrim, finn, height, taelord, raelin

thats one more chance to upgrade them, plus it is a whole lot easier considering you have to spend massive amounts of points to upgrade krav (everythng cost extra points, except height) than 4th mass ( they're 2 special abilities on the card dont cost you any points)

Sure, they have 2 "free" upgrades. But even with those, their attack and defense are just even with the KM. The KM can have that Attack and Defense while moving around and not needing height.

[jcb231]

Originally Posted by feekonea

In addtion to jasons post, its easie to upgrade the 4th mass...
4th mass upgrade ablities=height, valiant army bonus, WTF, marcus, raelin, taelord

krav upgrade abilities= thorgrim, finn, height, taelord, raelin

thats one more chance to upgrade them, plus it is a whole lot easier considering you have to spend massive amounts of points to upgrade krav (everythng cost extra points, except height) than 4th mass ( they're 2 special abilities on the card dont cost you any points)

Finn doesn't do anything to the Krav, but Thor can also help the 4th.

The balancing issue is that 4th only get a Valiant bonus in an all Valiant army....which Marcus and Taelord cannot be a part of. So they can't get all their bonuses at once.

Also, they only get WTF if they wait, then fire. As in, not move. As in, not get into range of their target. They are great defensive units, but not as great on offense because of this. Sure they can still tear it up, but they are in no way unbalanced. There's a ridiculous number of checks on these guys.

[shakey_snake]

The 4th aren't broken, they're just extremely useful in tournament settings.

You wouldn't want a unit with Wait and Fire in a situation where you have to go get something, for example.

The legionnaires aren't broken just very versatile for their 50 points.

[feekonea]

Originally Posted by MegadeV

Sure, they have 2 "free" upgrades. But even with those, their attack and defense are just even with the KM. The KM can have that Attack and Defense while moving around and not needing height.

maybe you havent realized but I dont think that they're attack and defense should be equal to the krav, considering the krav are 30 points more, plus the fourth have an extra guy. and are common.

[feekonea]

Originally Posted by jcb231

Finn doesn't do anything to the Krav, but Thor can also help the 4th.

The balancing issue is that 4th only get a Valiant bonus in an all Valiant army....which Marcus and Taelord cannot be a part of. So they can't get all their bonuses at once.

Also, they only get WTF if they wait, then fire. As in, not move. As in, not get into range of their target. They are great defensive units, but not as great on offense because of this. Sure they can still tear it up, but they are in no way unbalanced. There's a ridiculous number of checks on these guys.

finns spirit could help, correct? And they could have tae and marcus in their army, and still get the bonus, as long as tae and marcus die first right? Or is it just even if they die, they still wont get the bonus because the defeated figs are still not valiant?

[feekonea]

Originally Posted by jdtenor

feekonea wrote

Most poster agree that there are way better choices then the 4th but a few just don't get it so here's real battle situation

here's my 400 pt army

Syvarris 100pts

Krav Maga 100 pts

Sgt. Drake 110 pts

Deadeye Dan 60 pts

Guilty Mc Creech 30 pts

Good luck with your 4th & go ahead pick tealord so you can waste half your points!

I'll be checking for your 400 pt army?

well my favorite 400 point army is venoc warlord, ven vipers x7, butif you want me to do it with the 4th mass, im sure either UPC's army of 2 4th, 2 legionnaires, marcus, and me burg sa or lilwis's army of 4th mass x5 and me burg sa could easily deafeat that army.