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AotP General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


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  #937  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:38 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

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Originally Posted by Colorcrayons View Post
Card deck and army build point totals are separate entities from each other. You don't subtract them from the cost of the Planeswalkers.

I guess if you wanted to use the pwalkers in Heroscape without the cards, but I'm using Heroscape units in arena of the Planeswalkers. A subtle distinction.
In looking at the designs, I believe that the card costs are built into the costs of the planeswalkers. Gideon without cards is worth about 150 points.

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  #938  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:41 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

I don't think so. Not when you take deck construction into consideration. The power level fluctuates wildly when multiple copies are present.

I mean, I'm sure they are counted in there somewhere. But a straight 200 points? I'm highly skeptical.

But that only matters if you are porting pwalkers into Heroscape. I am porting Heroscape units into AotP. So ita a different beast and the argument is merely academic to me.
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  #939  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:44 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

Yep, each deck is 200 points.

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  #940  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:48 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorcrayons View Post
Card deck and army build point totals are separate entities from each other. You don't subtract them from the cost of the Planeswalkers.

I guess if you wanted to use the pwalkers in Heroscape without the cards, but I'm using Heroscape units in arena of the Planeswalkers. A subtle distinction.
In looking at the designs, I believe that the card costs are built into the costs of the planeswalkers. Gideon without cards is worth about 150 points.
I like the idea of the Spell Deck adding to the points of the Planeswalker. It would let you customize the deck to an agreed upon total (especially if playing with multiple sets). Might lead to some decks being a different size though (# of cards in the deck).

Definitely a lot of ways to go with it.

I need to get more games in : P
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  #941  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:49 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
Yep, each deck is 200 points.
True. But does that same 200 point for spell deck construction translate to 200 points of army building?

This is where I'm skeptical.

If this was true, then AotP would just be 700 points of "force building" combining the spell cards and units into one single build total.

This, in fact, is not the case.
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  #942  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:51 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

I did test Chandra (and her spells deck) and her two squads against a 500 point Heroscape army (knights + Nilf). It was balanced.

I haven't been able to do more testing since but I plan to.

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  #943  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 05:58 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

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Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I did test Chandra (and her spells deck) and her two squads against a 500 point Heroscape army (knights + Nilf). It was balanced.
Sorry. Anecdote does not equal data. There is a reason why inductive reasoning is a logical fallacy.

But hey, if it works for you, then it works for you.
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  #944  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 06:03 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

Thanks for the patronizing.

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  #945  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 07:10 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorcrayons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I did test Chandra (and her spells deck) and her two squads against a 500 point Heroscape army (knights + Nilf). It was balanced.
Sorry. Anecdote does not equal data. There is a reason why inductive reasoning is a logical fallacy.

But hey, if it works for you, then it works for you.
Condescend much?

Totally unnecessary.

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  #946  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 07:54 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorcrayons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I did test Chandra (and her spells deck) and her two squads against a 500 point Heroscape army (knights + Nilf). It was balanced.
Sorry. Anecdote does not equal data. There is a reason why inductive reasoning is a logical fallacy.

But hey, if it works for you, then it works for you.
Condescend much?

Totally unnecessary.
@Hahma I don't think he was trying to be condescending. He was probably trying to explain how a certain set of variables do not always equal the same outcome. The test that Quozl made was most likely incomplete and not enough to draw the Heroscape points = AotP points. However I do not agree with Colorcrayons.
@Colorcrayons Inductive reasoning has never been deemed a logical fallacy. Inductive reasoning is used daily for things like forcasts, and market predictions. However a conclusion based on Induction follows out of probability rather than necessity. Thus, Quozl's experiment is valid, though is likely to be refuted by someone who made the same experiment.
@quozl Can you tell us the Heroscape army used? Did you use order markers? Is the skill level of each player fairly equal? Can we assume that one player was effectively using heroscape mechanics and the other was using AotP mechanics? If this is the case, I think that a more unified system should be agreed upon. Perhaps play some more games with the same armies but don't use order markers or make the planeswalker use order markers. Where I believe you had a seemingly balanced and fun play session, there is inconclusive evidence that the score system is "balanced." The way you played is one possible way out of many to merge the Heroscape and AotP system. I have not yet gotten a copy but I intend to use heroscape squads in the same armies as planeswalkers. How this affects gameplay is still an unknown. I think what Colorcrayons and I would like is more data logging and more experimentation to gather a more objective conclusion.
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  #947  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 08:04 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

Why do you assume it was incomplete? I've been playtesting for a very long time.

You can look up the details at BGG.

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  #948  
Old July 22nd, 2015, 08:08 PM
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Re: Magic: the Gathering Strategy Board Game

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorcrayons View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by quozl View Post
I did test Chandra (and her spells deck) and her two squads against a 500 point Heroscape army (knights + Nilf). It was balanced.
Sorry. Anecdote does not equal data. There is a reason why inductive reasoning is a logical fallacy.

But hey, if it works for you, then it works for you.
Well in this case, anecdote does equal datum, which is actually useful. Jeez, no one expects a full cross-system testing at this point, nor did he claim anything like that. Bad form!
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