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  #37  
Old August 5th, 2018, 06:22 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Honestly, I think it sounds fun - my issues are that he has no call as to when to reveal himself and doesn't actually do much when he is revealed.


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  #38  
Old August 5th, 2018, 06:45 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

My concern is still that, as Chameleon's opponent, I know there's an enemy hiding among my troops, and I actively don't want to find him. That just doesn't seem very thematic to me. I personally think there should be some drive to uncover who's the spy as fast as possible. Maybe he can change the Suspect's class to show them not working together as well when they're all watching each other?
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  #39  
Old August 5th, 2018, 06:51 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

I'd say maybe at the end of the round he gets to roll an unblockable or maybe once per order marker? Idk. That would give urgency.
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  #40  
Old August 5th, 2018, 06:54 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Maybe a player with a marker on it can only have one OM plced on it at a time? Paranoia distracting them?

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  #41  
Old August 5th, 2018, 07:03 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by japes View Post
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Originally Posted by Qualizium View Post
Would it be too messy/strong to end the player's turn when Chameleon is revealed and give a free turn to Chameleon? I do also like LO's idea of rolling an unblockable attack die against a nearby figure.

Also it might be fun, rather than popping the suspect back to the start zone, to let the player who controls the suspect place them somewhere within clear sight of Chameleon. Imagine the real one showing up to yell "imposter!". That seems weaker than putting them in the start zone though, so probably don't do that unless he ends up needing to be toned down a bit.

Yes that would be turn interruption...big no-no
How about allowing you to move one (or more?) unrevealed order marker from your other cards onto Chameleon when he's revealed?
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  #42  
Old August 5th, 2018, 07:07 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
My concern is still that, as Chameleon's opponent, I know there's an enemy hiding among my troops, and I actively don't want to find him. That just doesn't seem very thematic to me. I personally think there should be some drive to uncover who's the spy as fast as possible. Maybe he can change the Suspect's class to show them not working together as well when they're all watching each other?
What if the player controlling the suspects could, before revealing a numbered OM, reveal an X on a suspect to flip the marker on that card, and if it's the Chameleon face one, roll an unblockable attack die against him and place him... I dunno, start zone or adjacent to one of your figures maybe? (thematically they "caught" him trying to pose as someone)
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  #43  
Old August 5th, 2018, 07:10 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualizium View Post
Would it be too messy/strong to end the player's turn when Chameleon is revealed and give a free turn to Chameleon? I do also like LO's idea of rolling an unblockable attack die against a nearby figure.

Also it might be fun, rather than popping the suspect back to the start zone, to let the player who controls the suspect place them somewhere within clear sight of Chameleon. Imagine the real one showing up to yell "imposter!". That seems weaker than putting them in the start zone though, so probably don't do that unless he ends up needing to be toned down a bit.

Yes that would be turn interruption...big no-no


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My point was that it seems very odd that he can teleport from one character to another one across the board just by being unengaged and then teleport a different enemy back to their start zone in each round...also feels extremely annoying to play against. I waste OM getting people moved about only to have half my army placed back in the start zone because Chameleon somehow morphed into a different figure between rounds.
It seems odd to me that if current Chameleon goes up against the FF, and Reed sees another Sue appear in the place that Chameleon was, he trusts that Sue more than the one that's been standing next to him protecting him with force fields all game. There's always gonna be some weirdness in impersonation powers.

He's not that efficient at bumping your figures back to the SZ. You can stop him from using the power entirely just by engaging him. I've played against Angstrom Levy without pulling my hair out, and I promise Chameleon doesn't touch his efficiency at figure-banishing.

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  #44  
Old August 5th, 2018, 07:26 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qualizium View Post
Would it be too messy/strong to end the player's turn when Chameleon is revealed and give a free turn to Chameleon? I do also like LO's idea of rolling an unblockable attack die against a nearby figure.

Also it might be fun, rather than popping the suspect back to the start zone, to let the player who controls the suspect place them somewhere within clear sight of Chameleon. Imagine the real one showing up to yell "imposter!". That seems weaker than putting them in the start zone though, so probably don't do that unless he ends up needing to be toned down a bit.

Yes that would be turn interruption...big no-no


Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
My point was that it seems very odd that he can teleport from one character to another one across the board just by being unengaged and then teleport a different enemy back to their start zone in each round...also feels extremely annoying to play against. I waste OM getting people moved about only to have half my army placed back in the start zone because Chameleon somehow morphed into a different figure between rounds.
It seems odd to me that if current Chameleon goes up against the FF, and Reed sees another Sue appear in the place that Chameleon was, he trusts that Sue more than the one that's been standing next to him protecting him with force fields all game. There's always gonna be some weirdness in impersonation powers.

He's not that efficient at bumping your figures back to the SZ. You can stop him from using the power entirely just by engaging him. I've played against Angstrom Levy without pulling my hair out, and I promise Chameleon doesn't touch his efficiency at figure-banishing.
I'm not really wanting to argue old cards, rather just discuss this one. The rest is arbitrary to this point. However, full disclosure, I've never played Levy so that may be why I'm more concerned.

I don't see how you can say he's not efficient at bumping figures back to the SZ...isn't it automatic once the marker is revealed...why wouldn't you not put it on a figure that you know they are taking a turn with...the efficiency is that you either have to skip your turn or it works...either way it's a win.

I mean unless you clump all your figures together it seems pretty easy to not have him engaged.

Sorry, I'm just trying to imagine this in play...specifically I'm thinking of a Luke Cage with Spidey build since that is the only build with Spidey I can wrap my head around right now...

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  #45  
Old August 5th, 2018, 08:36 PM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
My concern is still that, as Chameleon's opponent, I know there's an enemy hiding among my troops, and I actively don't want to find him. That just doesn't seem very thematic to me. I personally think there should be some drive to uncover who's the spy as fast as possible. Maybe he can change the Suspect's class to show them not working together as well when they're all watching each other?
I don't really see this as a problem. If you don't know who to trust, you're wary of putting your trust in the wrong person and getting backstabbed. I don't see a thematic issue with not wanting that to happen.

I could see doing something like what Qualizium is talking about, giving the opponent an option to try and sniff out Chameleon for themselves, but only if it doesn't over-complicate the card much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
I'm not really wanting to argue old cards, rather just discuss this one. The rest is arbitrary to this point. However, full disclosure, I've never played Levy so that may be why I'm more concerned.
Oh, yeah, I'm not looking to have a big argument over whether or not Chameleon (I) makes sense - just pointing out the fact that Scape isn't an RPG and it doesn't have clean mechanics for situations like this.

To me, some oddity/ambiguity in what's actually happening is fine if it replicates what the unit actually does in the source material. And Chameleon is one of those characters that pulls weird stuff like that off, where there wasn't a clear way for him to have done what he's done. Especially true for the modern version, who sometimes has superpowers and otherwise uses weird tech, and isn't just a guy wearing masks.


If bumping people all the way back to the SZ is too much of a problem, we could rein it in a little bit and only have them placed X spaces away from Chameleon. The key thing is the bit where Chameleon pulls the rug out from under the other army.

Quote:
I don't see how you can say he's not efficient at bumping figures back to the SZ...isn't it automatic once the marker is revealed...why wouldn't you not put it on a figure that you know they are taking a turn with...the efficiency is that you either have to skip your turn or it works...either way it's a win.
I should check myself there - it is efficient in that it doesn't require OMs - could be tweaked to require an X. What I meant is that he can only do it once a round, tops. Angstrom Levy can pull his trick three times a round.

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  #46  
Old August 6th, 2018, 06:50 AM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
To me, some oddity/ambiguity in what's actually happening is fine if it replicates what the unit actually does in the source material. And Chameleon is one of those characters that pulls weird stuff like that off, where there wasn't a clear way for him to have done what he's done. Especially true for the modern version, who sometimes has superpowers and otherwise uses weird tech, and isn't just a guy wearing masks.

Sounds like the modern version is more like the cartoon version in that respect - he could actually morph into people in a split second.

He was always one of my favourites - I liked that you never heard him speak when he wasn't morphed, so you never heard his real voice. Gave him a sense of mystery, and saved them hiring a dedicated voice actor.


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  #47  
Old August 6th, 2018, 10:35 AM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

Some sort of unblckable die when he’s revealed would make sense, as he’s getting the drop on people.

Something off about the mechanic, I think, is that Chameleon can’t choose to reveal himself at an opportune time - he can only be discovered. Seems like the Player controlling him should have more control.

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  #48  
Old August 6th, 2018, 10:44 AM
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Re: Ronin's Public Workshopping Thread

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Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Some sort of unblckable die when heís revealed would make sense, as heís getting the drop on people.

Something off about the mechanic, I think, is that Chameleon canít choose to reveal himself at an opportune time - he can only be discovered. Seems like the Player controlling him should have more controll.
Those are pretty much my thoughts, as well.


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