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  #1  
Old December 22nd, 2009, 11:54 AM
Lucas the beast Lucas the beast is offline
 
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100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Hey guys I haven't made a thread in a while but when I say Truths reveal on the cards I decided to make a thread sort of like the "Who is the best 100 point hero?"

So what you guys are going to do is decide who you believe in order is the best all-around figure to come from master set 3.

Here Are the Figures:
















I don't Wish to influence your descisions but here are my thoughts:

1. Tandros Kreel (Such a great basis for an army and a tank too!)

2. Othkurik the Black Dragon (Kind of like Mimring without bonding but a better special attack)

3. Feral Troll (8 lives for 90 points with a self-healer and can have a boosted attack! Count me in!)

4. Deewrym Drow (Only squad in the new master set three figures 3 attack 3 defence its kinda boring and the Caps or Knights could do a far better job. But there poison attack is quite potent maybe even a Q9 counter.)

5. Darrak Ambershard (60 point filler unit that is great for a mid-late game assassin, However two defence with four lives is very fragile.)

6. Erevan Sunshadow (With an interesting ranged attack paired with a 1 time use to gain height with ease is great, however Erevan is plagued by two defence and only five lives."

7. Pelloth (Can make a decent counter draft with him and a couple squads of Drow however in order to use his special which is powerful but risky, you have to have at least three squads of Drow to be able to use this guy. Making the real world cost also fairly high 1 squad of Drow a MS.)

8. Ana Karithon (Kinda like Kelda except Ana cannot heal on her turn, she has a really bad aura and a very narrow special attack against undead which is still only four dice top that off with TERRIBLE base stats. Ana Karithon is terrible.)

Ready, Set and Go!


-Lucas
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  #2  
Old December 22nd, 2009, 12:03 PM
jschild jschild is offline
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Actually I like Ana and Tandros - Ana is a really good cheerleader for figures that won't move much once in place, like Sylvarris and such.

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 12:07 PM
Lucas the beast Lucas the beast is offline
 
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

ahh shoot i forgot that Ana can heal when its not her turn!
She would be a beast with Syvaris or Kaemon Awa
-Lucas
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 12:11 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Anna actually seems to me like one of the best ones, with a defense aura and healing. The dragon and the troll look really good, too. The best one is probably Tandros Kreel. An agent carr style power up, range, double attack on squads, and an auto "attack me!!!" skill, Tandros can be a saving grace for a weakened party.

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  #5  
Old December 22nd, 2009, 12:51 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Here's my list:

1. Darrak Ambershard-He's 60 points, bonds with a competitive squad that doesn't have many bonding options, and can pack quite a punch. He's great to bring in the battle late, once your Axegrinder's are already engaged. I think he's probably the only figure from this set that will ever me truly competive, with maybe the exception of Othkurik.

2. Othkurik-He's relatively cheap, at least for a dragon, and he can kill both squads and heroes effieciently. I think he's pretty good, but might be overshadowed by some of the other dragons.

3. Ana Karithon-She would have been great if she could heal units like Q9 and Brunak, but unfortunatly she can't. However, she still works well with Sonlen, Raelin, Kaemon, and Syvarris, so she could be seen in a couple of unique ranged pods.

4. Tandros Kreel-While he has a powerful defense, and is a decent meatsheild(although he doesn't block enough space to truly be great), he simply can't do enough damage on an order marker to truly be worth it. He's good against heroes and melee squads, but ranged squads eat him up, and ranged squads are where it's at in heroscape.

5. Deepwyrm Drow-A 3 man melee squad with 3/3 stats is very hard to make competive. However, these guys aren't as bad as you think. Hide in Darkness gives them a lot better survivability, and poison weapons gives them strength against heroes. Still, against the strongest squads, I don't think they'll ever be able to work.

6. Erevan Sunshadow-I actually like this guy more then a lot of people seem to on this site, but I still don't think he's all that good. Fey step is a good way for him to secure early height, or to get out of a melee engagement, so I actually think it's a pretty good ability. His special attack is a ranged attack of 4 with 5 range, which is decent, although not good. His weak stats really hurt his usefulness though. Overall, he's not the best fig, but for only 80 points, I think he could actually fit into a couple armies.

7. Feral Troll-These guys just get eaten vs. squads. Honestly, if you could move 3 of these guys a turn, I still think they'd get blown to pieces by the 4th Mass, Stingers, and Trons. They are very good against heroes though, but they'll almost never be worth it against typical tourney armies.

8. Pelloth-I don't even know where to start with this guy. 4 lives with 3 defense gives him very poor survivabilty, and his regular attack is a complete waste of an order marker. Hide in Darkness will be useless most of the time. Blowing up drow is the only good thing about him, but it makes for a OM nightmare. If he had bonding with the drow, I would have liked him a lot. He's a cool unit, but definately not competitive.

These are of course just theory-scapeing, and I could be wrong about all of this. However, this is just my empressions of all these units, after thinking about all of them for a while. I love a lot of these units abilities, and I think these units will be very fun, but from a competitive standpoint, these guys just aren't that good.


Last edited by J-Unit94; December 22nd, 2009 at 01:28 PM.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 01:19 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Note that my rankings are based on tournament readiness, over a blend of tournament formats, but not scenario stuff.
  1. Darrak Ambershard - no brainer #1, just because he's a crucial addition to an already competitive army (i.e. the Axegrinders get a second hero).
  2. Othkurik TBD - strong offense makes his questionable defense acceptable. There's a new awesome 490 point army, too: 4thx5 + Othkurik. Kamikaze Othkurik, and then roll with the 4th.
  3. Feral Troll - nice to get a relatively cheap antihero hero. Good in cleanup, and a nice boost for Ornak in unique hero formats.
  4. Ana Karithon - I've already spilled a good amount of digital ink on Ana, but the bottom line is that her aura and healing can make her useful without using order markers, in the right build. If she were cheaper she would be an A unit for sure, but as it stands she's a solid B.
  5. Tandros Kreel - at the end of the day, he gives one attack of 2-4 per order marker. He's a nice tank, and combat challenge is helpful, but the alternatives at 120 points pretty much dominate him (Krug, ratsx3, etc).
  6. Deepwyrm Drow - Sort of like MRTs without range. Poison weapons is a really well-designed power, though.
  7. Pelloth - I don't think he's terrible. I need to do a deeper analysis of the special attack, but it could be a nice counter against certain builds. Still, he feels fairly situational to me.
  8. Erevan Sunshadow - Erevan Sunshadow is not good.

Last edited by dok; December 23rd, 2009 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Added Jexik's "what's in an Order Marker" colors
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  #7  
Old December 22nd, 2009, 01:28 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Note that my rankings are based on tournament readiness, over a blend of tournament formats, but not scenario stuff.
  1. Feral Troll - nice to get a relatively cheap antihero hero. Good in cleanup, and a nice boost for Ornak in unique hero formats.
Not a unique Hero, thus not Ornak boost.


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Old December 22nd, 2009, 01:29 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Note that my rankings are based on tournament readiness, over a blend of tournament formats, but not scenario stuff.
  1. Feral Troll - nice to get a relatively cheap antihero hero. Good in cleanup, and a nice boost for Ornak in unique hero formats.
Not a unique Hero, thus not Ornak boost.
Uncommon Heros are treated as Unique Heros for powers, etc.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 01:39 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

A good way to introduce a new thread and then comment on it is to post the original post, then post your thoughts in another post. That way, the intro is not influenced by your personal thoughts, and people can still read what you think. And it adds to your post count.

Just my 2 cents.

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 03:16 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Unit94 View Post
7. Feral Troll-These guys just get eaten vs. squads. Honestly, if you could move 3 of these guys a turn, I still think they'd get blown to pieces by the 4th Mass, Stingers, and Trons. They are very good against heroes though, but they'll almost never be worth it against typical tourney armies.
While the Feral trolls clearly do better against heroes, I don't think they're any worse against squads then many similarly priced single attack heroes.

I think people look at the 1 defense, and severely underestimate the 8 lives. Even without taking regeneration into account, the trolls have almost equal survivability against attacks of 3 as a unit with 4 defense and 4 life. Against attacks of 4 or higher, 1 defense and 8 life has significantly better survivability then 4 defense and 4 life. Add regeneration into the mix, and you can expect the trolls to stick around as well as quite a few other heroes.
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Old December 22nd, 2009, 08:03 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

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Originally Posted by padlock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by J-Unit94 View Post
7. Feral Troll-These guys just get eaten vs. squads. Honestly, if you could move 3 of these guys a turn, I still think they'd get blown to pieces by the 4th Mass, Stingers, and Trons. They are very good against heroes though, but they'll almost never be worth it against typical tourney armies.
While the Feral trolls clearly do better against heroes, I don't think they're any worse against squads then many similarly priced single attack heroes.

I think people look at the 1 defense, and severely underestimate the 8 lives. Even without taking regeneration into account, the trolls have almost equal survivability against attacks of 3 as a unit with 4 defense and 4 life. Against attacks of 4 or higher, 1 defense and 8 life has significantly better survivability then 4 defense and 4 life. Add regeneration into the mix, and you can expect the trolls to stick around as well as quite a few other heroes.
I agree on the terms that the Feral Troll can hang around a while. He has good survivability for his cost. It's just that he can't do any damage on his turns. 1 melee attack of 3 in this game just doesn't cut it for an attacking hero against squads. I think he would probably fail his attacks just as often as he'd kill a squad figure, so you'd be getting almost nothing out of a turn with him.

I guess an interesting way to play would be to try to use him as a meatshield, but I don't think he'd last very long without his regeneration, and to get that, he has to take turns. He just doesn't seem worth it in a competitive army.

Also, looking at a couple attack heroes priced near him, I'd say he's far outclassed.

Crixus-5-6 attack plus bonding plus longer survivability through one-shield defense

Denrick-4 attack plus bonding

Carr-6 attack plus ranged attack of 2

Drake-6 attack plus better survivability against ranged squads

These are just a few heroes priced near him who (besides Carr, but even he might be better) are significantly better then the Feral Troll. Considering some of these heroes aren't even that good themselves, I'd say the troll isn't very competitive. The Feral Troll might be better then Erevan, but I'll have to wait and see. I still think Erevan could be decent in the right army. (maybe Trons)

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Old December 22nd, 2009, 09:20 PM
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Re: 100% theoryscape: Who are the elite of master set 3?

double post

Last edited by dok; December 22nd, 2009 at 09:42 PM.
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