Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[Sir Heroscape]

Grappled figures should not be able to move away using Carry or Summoning etc.

[Astroking112]

I would like to nominate my customs Abe no Seimei (Primary) and Kincho (Secondary) for SoV consideration. They are intended to be the first step towards a Yokai faction, fleshing out the other side of Masha Shingai to create a new and unique faction within HeroScape.

ABE NO SEIMEI


The miniature used for Abe no Seimei is Nymph, Alseid #008 from the recently released Mythic Odysseys of Theros D&D set.

BIO:

Spoiler Alert!

“You are not an easy man to find, sorcerer,” Einar said as the light from his summoning circle slowly faded away. Standing in the center was a lone man draped in crackling, yellow fire.

“It was not yet time for me to appear,” the sorcerer said in a low voice.

Einar notched an eyebrow as he asked, “You knew that you would come to Valhalla?”

The sorcerer smiled as he spread his palms outward and bowed. “Of course, Lord Einar,” he said, “You see, I am a simple sorcerer. I can see everything that has been or will be, and I know that things must happen for a reason. My time on Feylund was at its end, but I knew that my destiny had more in store for me.”

Einar smiled. “My visions led me well to find you, then. Will you fight for me, sorcerer?”

The sorcerer slowly shook his head. “I am much better suited as an advisor, my liege. If you would allow, then I can guide you well to ensure that you win this war, but only on one condition.”

A look of dangerous interest crossed Einar’s face as his brow furrowed. “You would ask a condition of me?”

Unfazed, the sorcerer slowly nodded. “Yes, my liege. I know that many of your troops wish to return to their home worlds once this war is over—”

Einar inwardly sighed in disappointment. For a second, he had thought that this would be an interesting request. “I will grant you your condition, sorcerer. If we win this war, then I will return you to Feylund.”

“No,” the sorcerer firmly stated, “When we win this war, Lord Einar, I do not want you to send me back to Feylund. There is another world that I am destined for.”

At this request, the room fell silent save for the crackling fire on the man’s shoulder. Then, something miraculous happened: Einar started to laugh. His booming laughter echoed throughout his summoning chamber—so many of his nobles and the warriors that he summoned were afraid of him—it was refreshing to see someone with such a strong spine!

“Very well, sorcerer! When we win Valhalla, I will send you to a planet of your choice. Until then, I am very interested in what the future holds in store,” Einar leaned forward, gesturing the sorcerer forward, “Now, by what name should I address you, my royal advisor?”

The sorcerer paused for a second, tilting his eyes to the skies. Finally, he returned Einar’s gaze and smiled. “Abe no Seimei,” he replied, “That is the name that they will come to know me by.”

KINCHO


The miniature used for Kincho is Tanuki #019 from Pathfinder's Jungle of Despair release.

Currently, the only other Yokai (possibly) in existence is Masha Shingai, who is under review by SoV. There are no other big existing synergies right now, but these two units leave open the space for further Yokai designs to really flesh out the faction and create something unique.

I've delved into what makes these guys special in the spoilers below. In short, they are a highly creative, unique foundation for a future faction, even if they aren't "competitive" in the traditional sense.

BALANCE

Spoiler Alert!

Balance is a little weird here, actually. Currently, the Yokai do not make for a competitive army (at 300 points, the existing ones don't leave room for much else). They are heavily restricted by the limit to 1 attack per turn, with neither attack being particularly impressive (either Masha's 1x5 or Seimei's 1x3 at a modest 6 range). There are some multi-attackers that Leo Ultra and I have been working on, but they're undergoing more polish right now to ensure that they're up to the same standards set by Masha, Seimei, and Kincho.

So in that regard, the Yokai are pretty underpowered right now. However, they do make for some very fun figures to play around with, and I would rather that they fall on the lower end of the power curve anyway (Seimei is a tricky unit to use that really rewards creative plays, so skilled players will be able to find a lot more value out of him). There is the potential for them to be expanded even further with other Yokai, but that does not mean that just Seimei and Kincho feel underwhelming. Certainly, you should not expect to take these three Yokai to a tournament and win, but they're super fun and unique to play with, and they would make for a very exciting casual pairing in scenarios and dungeon crawls (which is just as big of a part of the game as tournaments!).

For Kincho specifically, he does have some synergy with Master Lao Xin and Master Win Chiu Woo as a Monk hero, along with the potential to act as a filler hero for 60 points. He is a new and interesting tool for the monks to tinker around with, but they really are better off taking one of the other monk heroes or another squad of Shaolin Monks over him. His Tanuki Trickery requires giving up another Monk turn, which can be rough, and it limits him nicely from being too strong of a choice for the monks. Still, he's definitely an option that they appreciate having, especially with his Phantom Walk and ability to get around maps in inventive ways. As a filler hero, Kincho fairs a little better for his investment, but if he isn't rolling shields, he'll fall pretty quickly, and he lacks the offensive punch of cheaper fillers like Siiv. He has a lot of potential to tie down figures for a bit or to generally be unexpected with Tanuki Trickery, but it's nicely restrained by his low stats and general reliance on Seimei to ease some of the limits.

THEME

Spoiler Alert!

Feylund is known for appropriating Earth's mythologies with its own twist (turning Medusa into a mummy being a notable example), and it even delved into Japanese mythology in the past with Gurei-Oni. Expanding off of that, Yokai from Feylund is a no-brainer. That gives us lots of room to take inspiration from actual Japanese legends and give them our own HeroScape twists.

For Kincho, this involves a new spin on the Tanuki, one of the most famous Yokai. They are known for their superb shapeshifting skills and for being generally mischievous tricksters, but not all Tanuki are bad. In fact, there is a notable legend about one Tanuki in particular who was rescued by a man and promised to change its devious ways, protecting his village for many years as a result. Kincho is loosely inspired by that legend, being a peaceful monk who still has quite a few tricks up his sleeve.

He also follows Ullar, rather than Einar, to open up the possibility of Yokai following different generals. My goal is to eventually have a Yokai following each Valkyrie general that emphasizes their various themes and further reinforces each general's unique flavor: for Ullar, this means creating a mobility tool for the faction, emphasizing the themes of movement and general mobility. This is further supported by Masha mixing attack and defense like a true Einar Samurai, and the other Yokai drafts so far that follow different generals all place an emphasis on what makes each general unique.

Finally, many of the Yokai also have "side-factions" as it were. This fits very well with the many disparate Yokai folktales that are sometimes contradictory, but once Seimei enters the field, he can spin everything together and make them actually gel into their own cohesive build. Some Yokai, like Masha, might be better off with their other armies, but the option is still there if you want to get your figures on the table more.

Speaking of Abe no Seimei, I would be remiss to not mention the actual, historical Abe no Seimei that served as an inspiration for this unit. He was a famous poet and astrologist from 10th Century Japan, and he was the most prominent Onmyoji (think mystic expert). He was an imperial advisor who was in charge of divining the future, explaining mystic occurrences, and generally warding off evil spirits. Once he died, however, legends began to spread about him like a wildfire. People claimed that he was half-Yokai himself, that he had been able to control minor Oni since a young age, and that he was immortal, still wandering the world today. He is essentially the Merlin of Japan, known as the strongest sorcerer and attributed to many differing legends and unique histories ever since.

With that in mind, he is quite literally the perfect fit for a "controller" for this faction. His sorcery enhances the Yokai's own abilities, allowing them to change their shapes at will. Because HeroScape does not attribute magical entities to Earth, he himself originates from Feylund like the other Yokai. However, it's worth noting that since HeroScape transcends time and space (with the explicit intent to send units back to their homeworlds stated in Thormun's Journal), there is a very real possibility that he could be sent to Earth's past after the war in Valhalla and later take on the form of "our" Seimei. In fact, he could still be alive today, simply changing his form every generation. It's a unique take on the Seimei legend befitting of his implementation into Valhalla, which makes it at once feel both at home in HeroScape and true to the many splintered legends of his source material.

CREATIVITY

Spoiler Alert!

I think that both of these designs are extremely creative and distinct. Seimei is perhaps one of the weirdest controller units that we've seen--generally, Unique Hero factions tend to have a controller unit who lets you take multiple turns with those heroes or centralize your Order Markers in some way, like Kato Katsuro, Kantono Daishi, Master Lao Xin, or to a lesser degree, Clayton Pierce. Seimei does not allow for that kind of freedom. Instead, he gives the player entirely new choices for how to use the faction.

Very early on in development, I decided that I wanted the Yokai to feel distinct as Yokai. To that end, further developing the "revealed Order Marker" mechanic on Masha was a natural starting point. Each of the Yokai have some kind of powerful ability that is held back by needing revealed OMs--it's a very harsh limit, but one that makes Seimei thrive with his Night of the Yokai. Moving already revealed OMs is generally useless, but with the Yokai, it lets you choose which abilities to activate independent of which figures you need to take turns with. Perhaps the most prominent example is Kincho: ideally, you don't want to waste a turn on his paltry single attack of 3, but you're forced to if you want to take advantage of his defining Tanuki Trickery. Seimei frees you to take turns with stronger Yokai, like Masha Shingai, and then activate Tanuki Trickery anyway. Of course, to do this, you're limited to taking turns with Yokai, so there's no taking Raelin or a stronger option and freely activating your abilities anyway.

Shapeshift is another defining power for the faction, and when combined with Night of the Yokai, it really makes taking them together fun and feasible. Suddenly, you can take a Yokai's turn from any other Yokai's position, and you can change which powers you're activating when. This frees up your OM management without changing your commitments or offering more security: the Yokai don't heavily compete for OMs anymore, but you also can still lose out on turns and need to carefully plan your rounds. It's a mix of traditional toolbox armies and controller units unlike anything else that we've seen before. Divination is the cherry on top, providing a fourth revealed OM each round to make activating more abilities a possibility as another creative way to really boost the Yokai.

On the other side of the coin, Kincho is an equally unique way of answering one of the faction's main issues: mobility. Shapeshift provides a ton of flexibility for each of the Yokai, but you're fundamentally still only developing one Unique Hero per turn. Against squads, the Yokai simply can't keep up. Kincho addresses this by being able to teleport adjacent to your further developed figures, then shift out with another Yokai to essentially develop an extra one each round. This will become especially useful as a mobility tool as more Yokai are added, and it's a suitably unique way of making the faction work.

PLAYABILITY

Spoiler Alert!

I alluded to this above, but the Yokai really aren't competitive in the traditional sense. They need a better offensive tool than Masha, and those offensive tools are still under development. That's only really an issue if you only want to play them in tournaments, though, since they're super fun to play anyway, and they make for interesting characters in scenarios, dungeon crawls, or even castle sieges (thanks to a certain tanuki). In my opinion, the main distinguishing factor for whether something is playable or not is not whether it's competitive, but whether it's fun. In that regard, I'm happy to say that the Yokai deliver in spades.

Additionally, HeroScape is no stranger to staggered releases, or to opening up new synergies to let later units come in and really make old ones shine. Even if the Yokai aren't competitive now, as additional ones start to filter in, they'll have a much bigger bite and will eventually be able to perform more normally in a tournament setting. It's for the best if just these two (and/or Masha) aren't super competitive yet, since the faction is so ripe for expansion in the future. And, if those other Yokai don't pass or come to fruition for whatever reason, then at least we've got some super fun and unique new units for scenarios.

AVAILABILITY

• Abe no Seimei is a Common figure from a very recent D&D release. He has 110+ sculpts floating around eBay, 20+ at MiniatureMarket, and generally strong availability for a very affordable price for just $2-$3 on average.
• Kincho is a bit older, but he's still routinely available for an average of $3-$5. For example, just from these sites he sums up to 96+ sculpts:
  • MiniatureMarket: 11
  • RPGLocker: 25
  • eBay: 60+

Whew. I think that I'm done typing now. Many thanks go out to @Leo Ultra and @Captain Stupendous for their help playtesting and their feedback on the units, along with other users from the Discord server like @Shiftrex and @flameslayer93 for their continued feedback as well! My apologies for the long post, but I look forward to your consideration!

[Son of Arathorn]

When using Abe No Seimei's Divination special power, how is it decided which unrevealed Order Marker the Yokai player can look at? I assume it's supposed to be that the Yokai player picks from one of 4 unrevealed Order Markers, but that's not what the card says (so I could be wrong about the intent).

[Astroking112]

The intent is indeed that the Yokai player can pick any unrevealed Order Marker to look at (so it's not completely at random). I believe that's the precedent that we settled on in AotV due to cards like the Fyorlag Spiders, Silver Surfer, and the Glyph of Oreld, which all specify "random Order Markers" despite not actually being random in practice.

[Son of Arathorn]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

The intent is indeed that the Yokai player can pick any unrevealed Order Marker to look at (so it's not completely at random). I believe that's the precedent that we settled on in AotV due to cards like the Fyorlag Spiders, Silver Surfer, and the Glyph of Oreld, which all specify "random Order Markers" despite not actually being random in practice.

See, I ditched my Marvel set long ago, and never got my hands on Fyorlag Spiders.

Thanks for clarifying that, Astro! Much appreciated.

[caps]

to review Abe no Seimei and Kincho from me.

[Scytale]

It's tough to get a real feel for Abe or Kincho without much in the line of existing Yokai. I can see where they both support Masha, but that's about it. Combined they give some shifting and order marker trickery to Masha, but neither of them do much of anything themselves (Abe's single attack of 3 at range 6 is only ok). I can see potential there, right now I fear it will be like playing the gladiator heroes before the Capuans came out.

Still, the potential is there, and it's hard to really judge them in terms of playability from theoryscaping.

to review Abe no Seimei
to review Kincho

[Astroking112]

Continuing the discussion about these new Yokai, I have a general question in regards to Masha Shingai: would it be possible to amend Fiery Retribution to trigger for Samurai or Yokai? For example:

FIERY RETRIBUTION 13
When Masha Shingai, or any Samurai or Yokai that you control within 2 clear sight spaces of Masha Shingai, receives one or more wounds from a normal attack by an attacking figure who is not adjacent, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 13 or higher, deal one wound to the attacking figure.

This change would have no impact on the testing that has already been done on Masha, since he is designed primarily for the Samurai and it doesn't change any other units. It does make for a slight thematic shift if he can avenge both Yokai and Samurai, but it logically follows that he would avenge either type of army that you can expect to find him within (if I had some of the faction laid out way back when he was initially changed to a Yokai, I would've included the synergy then, but unfortunately I didn't have the foresight for that).

Fiery Retribution itself is often fairly weak in practice, but the added synergy with Abe no Seimei and Kincho would result in Masha feeling more valuable for his points in Yokai builds (especially since they're more likely to have high life and low defense than Samurai are). Given that their main issue is quantity of attacks, the extra chance to deal damage is also a nice supplement to the faction and helps them generally feel more cohesive together. I ran some quick tests so far and found this synergy to be reasonable; I would be comfortable with Seimei and Kincho being tested with this synergy in mind.

[Scytale]

That change seems fine to me.

[caps]

That change is also fine with me; I'm wary of setting a precedent for making changes of this nature after a unit has been submitted. But where it changes none of the interactions as of testing time I think this should be fine.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by capsocrates

That change is also fine with me; I'm wary of setting a precedent for making changes of this nature after a unit has been submitted. But where it changes none of the interactions as of testing time I think this should be fine.

Aye, and there is additional concerns since it has already passed UF Review. Though I rather doubt anyone would change their opinion based on this change.

[superfrog]

to both Yokai and to the Masha edit.