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  #4237  
Old February 25th, 2018, 01:43 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
But they are not human.

Wakandans could have sent more 'special forces' to help with more modern instead of advanced technology. Hell, just supplying certain regions with clean water would go a long way and well within their means.

I would have preferred to see Wakanda do some good.
I think they will in the future.
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  #4238  
Old February 25th, 2018, 08:43 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
But they are not human.

Wakandans could have sent more 'special forces' to help with more modern instead of advanced technology. Hell, just supplying certain regions with clean water would go a long way and well within their means.

I would have preferred to see Wakanda do some good.
You do realize that was a big point of the movie right...Nakia's whole issue was that they didn't do enough so she was running about doing for others. It was a huge part of T'Challa internal struggle. He knew he should do more but the old guard was so fearful of the outside world changing them that they closed themselves off...It was one of the biggest lessons of the movie...
Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #4239  
Old February 26th, 2018, 08:47 AM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
Yeah, I get that. I even stated that in one of my posts.

I just do not think it painted Wakanda in a good light.
All I hear is how they are all examples of people to look up to, when they are the exact opposite.

They can be however they want to be but do not tell me that they are an example that Africans should be proud of.

I have heard of no one else bringing up this point. Only how great an example they are.
Look how strong and smart and powerful they are but ignore the fact they choose to do nothing.

Remember when Uncle Ben said: "With great power, comes the great responsibility to isolate yourself from others and never, ever help anyone. Remember that Peter."

We should herald a couple characters because they finally decided that maybe we should use our incredible power to help, maybe?

Nakia is the only character that actually tried to help someone less fortunate.
Truly an example to look up to!

Does the movie not work if Wakanda is a little less "my precious"?
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  #4240  
Old February 26th, 2018, 10:34 AM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
I don't think it would work as well for the movie if Wakanda was a benevolent country at the start. The actions of its past leaders has led Killmonger to become so passionate and driven. It made it so that Nakia becomes a lone wolf in that regard and helping others while she is out "spying". She helps in the beginning scene and references an instance in Korea and ivory trade. Also, Vibranium is so powerful, if Wakanda exposed themselves, it could have allowed for more people to find out about Vibranium and bad people could get ahold of it.

Also, those positives talked about with regards to African culture, smarts, powerful women etc are there regardless of the decisions their leaders make. Just like any country, where there are good people and such. Just because their leaders make certain choices, it doesn't mean that everyone in the country is part of those choices or even know about them.
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Last edited by Hahma; February 26th, 2018 at 10:58 AM.
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  #4241  
Old February 26th, 2018, 11:11 AM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
I totally agree in regards to the royal guard and should have mentioned that earlier.
Their loyalty to their king must be absolute and the results of their action or inaction is solely on the king and they were absolutely loyal and you have to respect that for sure.

I am just saying with their level of tech they could have done more covertly, without exposing themselves besides a single lone wolf.
This would have shown them to at least have a shred of decency in regards to helping their fellow Africans.

Wakandans live in high tech ivory towers while most of the rest of the country is in poverty and there was absolutely nothing they could do until the end of the movie?
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  #4242  
Old February 26th, 2018, 11:32 AM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
The leaders choose not to do things to help and they were wrong. As great as all their tech and warriors were, they are/were not perfect. No country in the world is perfect or makes all the right decisions. But for the movie, T'Challa calls out the previous leaders and makes changes. The decisions made by the previous rulers help set up the story of how T'Challa is different/special and how he may be a better ruler than the previous ones.

I don't think the movie, or anyone seeing it has said that the Wakandans were perfect.
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  #4243  
Old February 26th, 2018, 01:30 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
Not perfect but to be looked up to. People to aspire to.

This is all based on the fact they have money and power and tech and nothing to do with the people themselves.

There is a big difference between perfect and complete inaction and tons of room to settle in between but it was decided to portray them as extremists.
I do not think that was necessary.

They could be helping people covertly without revealing themselves, easily!
Then they would have been people to respect and look up to.
Really a simple change that does not alter the movie one bit. They could still remain hidden, still live in their skyscrapers of luxury tech but actually be good people.

That is all.
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  #4244  
Old February 26th, 2018, 03:41 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornado View Post
Not perfect but to be looked up to. People to aspire to.

This is all based on the fact they have money and power and tech and nothing to do with the people themselves.

There is a big difference between perfect and complete inaction and tons of room to settle in between but it was decided to portray them as extremists.
I do not think that was necessary.

They could be helping people covertly without revealing themselves, easily!
Then they would have been people to respect and look up to.
Really a simple change that does not alter the movie one bit. They could still remain hidden, still live in their skyscrapers of luxury tech but actually be good people.

That is all.
I think what people choose to be inspired by depends on the person. The movie was a story and a morality tale so yes the beginning they weren't helping enough but the payoff at the end was that a lesson was learned and now they are a place to be inspired by.
Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #4245  
Old February 26th, 2018, 05:06 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
I think what most people (including the writers for Black Panther in a few scenes) forgets is that the African Continent is not now, nor has ever been, one big happy family. Long before the Europeans showed up in sub-Serra Africa, the African tribes who lived there fought each other. Same for the Native American Tribes in North America before the Europeans show up, Asians in the Far East, the Sunni and Shiite Muslims across the Middle East, and the Europeans themselves all across Europe. Some of the rivalries and blood feuds between tribes/clans/countries go back centuries and are not something easily forgotten or forgiven. When Wakanda discovered they had something that was truly a game changer (Vibranium), and thus something everyone else they knew would be willing to fight and kill for control of, they were right to keep it a secret.

Once they got to a point where they felt they could help others without risking an invasion, the question becomes who do they help. Those closest to their boarders would be those they had fought with the most often in the past and thus those they trusted the least. Also how do you go about handing out aid on the world stage without inviting questions as to how they acquired what they are sharing. Remember, Ross thought they were simple sheep farmers.

The story of our hero T'challa is actually the story of how Wakanda decides to finally emerge from the shadows and embrace their responsibilities to the greater good. I suspect that if you are 'hearing how they are all examples of people to look up to' it might be a simpler message they are talking about. Wakanda is a country made up of 5 different tribes, who put aside their previous differences in order to come together once they realized their lands all existed on or near large deposits of vibranium. Now look at what they achieved working together for the last ~200 years instead of fighting with each other. That alone is a good message for the continent of Africa. Do you have any idea how many brutal civil wars are still taking place all across the continent today? They fight over control of diamonds, gold, oil, etc. maiming each other by cutting off limbs and stealing away children to press into their army. So the message is, try putting aside your quarrels and working together. Use the resources your country has to benefit everyone equally. You might be surprised at what you can achieve and just how much things could improve for everyone. That is a pretty good message, not only for the African Continent but for the American Ghetto as well where Bloods and Crypts are killing their communities future. How many talented young black boys and girls have been killed by gangland or drug turf violence in America? What a waste, vibranium isn't the only resource Wakanda has used to make themselves stronger than their neighbors. The people of Wakanda themselves are a great resource, with Shuri being a shining example.
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  #4246  
Old February 26th, 2018, 05:38 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
OK, I put Black Panther at or near the top of my list for these reasons:
1) the depth of the story, which I feel is just beginning,
2) the fact that I feel Black Panther is about to replace Iron Man as the go to cameo as Marvel can't continue to pay so much to RDJ for cameos,
3) Black Panther easily has the best villains of any Marvel movie, I loved Claw, Killmonger, and M'Baku. In fact, M'Baku was my favorite character to survive this movie. They had 3 main bad guys and all felt developed, well cast, and well written. I honestly feel that no other movie can boast that,
4) the possibilities that the future holds. IMO, no other Marvel movie has premiered with such hype and lived up to it. If they can keep this up, Black Panther could supplant Captain America as my favorite Marvel Trilogy.

I mostly agree with Yoda's list except Black Panther and Avengers. Honestly, I don't feel Avengers holds up that well anymore. The novelty of "all the SuperHeroes" has worn off because we are getting multiple superheroes in every movie. The plot of that movie is weak, IMO, so I'd swap it with Black Panther.
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  #4247  
Old February 26th, 2018, 06:00 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
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Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
OK, I put Black Panther at or near the top of my list for these reasons:
1) the depth of the story, which I feel is just beginning,
2) the fact that I feel Black Panther is about to replace Iron Man as the go to cameo as Marvel can't continue to pay so much to RDJ for cameos,
3) Black Panther easily has the best villains of any Marvel movie, I loved Claw, Killmonger, and M'Baku. In fact, M'Baku was my favorite character to survive this movie. They had 3 main bad guys and all felt developed, well cast, and well written. I honestly feel that no other movie can boast that,
4) the possibilities that the future holds. IMO, no other Marvel movie has premiered with such hype and lived up to it. If they can keep this up, Black Panther could supplant Captain America as my favorite Marvel Trilogy.

I mostly agree with Yoda's list except Black Panther and Avengers. Honestly, I don't feel Avengers holds up that well anymore. The novelty of "all the SuperHeroes" has worn off because we are getting multiple superheroes in every movie. The plot of that movie is weak, IMO, so I'd swap it with Black Panther.
I remember loving Avengers in the theater and was so excited to watch it with my son last year as I hadn't seen it since... I remember thinking to myself that he was going to love this movie...what 8-9 year old boy wouldn't love a movie full of action and super heroes...then after the movie I looked at him all excited to get his reaction and he said...it was ok and the plot was kind of weak...that's when I realized I had way to low of standards for super hero movies...My kid saw it for what it was...and I missed it.

I think Black Panther has a lot of potential if they go trilogy on it but even if they don't it was a great addition to the Marvel Universe as is.

I do think the racial aspect (while in our current environment is a major issue) is doing a disservice to the depth of this movie. The more I've thought about this movie the more I like it. I see tons of praise for the racial aspect (rightful so) but if feels like lots of the layers were missed.

The father-son relationship seeing our fathers as these great people and the emotions of realizing they were flawed humans.

Struggling with decisions of having the power to help and coping with the idea's of "should we" when it could be to the detriment of self/country

How our own actions (however well intended) can create our greatest enemies

How bad guys can have noble intentions (BP has the greatest villain because he's not just a greedy or evil person. He truly believes that his cause is just)

believed in a cause so greatly that you'd be willing to give up the chance to be a queen to continue to fight the good fight...

There is a whole lot to this movie besides the parts that so many are focusing on.
Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #4248  
Old February 26th, 2018, 06:02 PM
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Re: Movies: What did You Watch Last Night?
So a question for those of you who know the Black Panther comic lore better than me.
Spoiler Alert!
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