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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #49  
Old December 24th, 2017, 04:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

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Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Quote:
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I also thought we backed off of the one in testing at a time once we dropped in number of heroes but that was just a guess. I do agree with the Lady Death not really being a Ronin design. It's more of house cleaning. It was specifically why I created the Design subforum so threads like that wouldn't get lost again.
I wouldn't mind lifting the one-in-testing-at-a-time restriction. I'm not sure it would speed things up any, but I'd be willing to try it.

Side note on old retired designs: I'd really like to see that Yellow Lantern Hank Henshaw design get picked back up as well.
Best brought up elsewhere and continued...

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #50  
Old December 25th, 2017, 10:34 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

With the update on the limit situation, this is down to @johnny139 in order to move to Public Playtesting.
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  #51  
Old December 25th, 2017, 10:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

Yea
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  #52  
Old December 25th, 2017, 10:37 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

This passes 5-0.
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  #53  
Old January 1st, 2018, 10:10 AM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

I don't see too many concerns
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  #54  
Old January 15th, 2018, 09:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Nightcrawler (II)

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Nightcrawler (II) @190, Sage, Wolfsbane, Quentin Quire, Jubilee, Armor (800) vs Wrecking Crew (800)
Spoiler Alert!

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Map: Ivy's Greenhouse
Units: Nightcrawler (II) @200, Enchantress (I), Blink, Ant-Man (Scott), Angel (Warren), Mysterio (1000) vs Captain America (C3G), Bucky, Luke Cage, Iron Man Mk IV, Iron Fist (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: Fun, but he seems a little on the strong side (like a pretty easy 220-230 point value as-is). Ripe fodder for Sage builds. Might help if the defense subtraction were taken down to -1 or if he couldn't get it against the same figure twice in one turn. Saw him absolutely maul a couple of the Wrecking Crew dudes with Sage + height, which has me a little wary.

Last edited by Ronin; January 15th, 2018 at 10:50 PM.
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  #55  
Old January 15th, 2018, 09:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

Thanks for the tests!

I would think 220 is the ceiling for how high I'd want his point value to go. I feel that's still fitting for the character at his most useful/powerful.

As for his power only working on the same figure once in a turn, thematically I feel it fits to have it be for each attack as he can teleport anywhere around you to catch you off guard, even if you know he's coming. A -1 to defense instead of -2 wouldn't be out of the question, but then I'd ponder if a bump in attack is necessary to still keep him useful. A 4 attack with -1 defense vs. a 3 attack at -2 defense would still be weaker, IMO.

I guess we'll have to see how it all breaks down, but I wouldn't be opposed to the point bump as a first measure of adjustment, with a change to -1 after if more games are coming in with him doing a ton of damage. The thing that sticks out to me, is that while he's doing a decent chunk of damage, more-so when boosted by Sage which is a part of her cost, but that he's still losing. He lost all 3 of mine, and 1 out of your 2 games. So that's a little odd.
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  #56  
Old January 15th, 2018, 10:05 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Thanks for the tests!

I would think 220 is the ceiling for how high I'd want his point value to go. I feel that's still fitting for the character at his most useful/powerful.

As for his power only working on the same figure once in a turn, thematically I feel it fits to have it be for each attack as he can teleport anywhere around you to catch you off guard, even if you know he's coming. A -1 to defense instead of -2 wouldn't be out of the question, but then I'd ponder if a bump in attack is necessary to still keep him useful. A 4 attack with -1 defense vs. a 3 attack at -2 defense would still be weaker, IMO.

I guess we'll have to see how it all breaks down, but I wouldn't be opposed to the point bump as a first measure of adjustment.
4 attack and -1 doesn't seem too off the wall. The -2 does seem off since Wolverine has his ADAMANTIUM CLAWS to get a -2 I don't see this being on equal footing of indestructible razor sharp blades.

2 attacks of 3 with a -1 Defense isn't really equivalent to a pea shooter either though. He's got solid survivability to be able to get several shots too. Since he gets to Bamf 3 times he should be hitting with Height often enough and then he's a mutant so he's got that bonus as well as the fact that he can carry a teammate, which helps him in other builds as well. (Would a Cappy + Sage + Kurt be an army worth someone trying?)

If we keep it to being able to hit the same target with defense penalty for both attacks I'm on board the drop to -1. Whether the attack bump to 4 is needed is arguable but it's still an argument worth happening.

EDIT: I can get behind the 220 as a ceiling as well.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #57  
Old January 15th, 2018, 10:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

Hmmm...perhaps stay at 190 for now, and go with -1. If his performance is coming in low or he keeps losing his matches, we could then discuss either lowering his points to 180, or we bump his attack to 4.

I don't need him being a force of destruction to consider his draftability, but I also don't want to over nerf.
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  #58  
Old January 15th, 2018, 10:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Hmmm...perhaps stay at 190 for now, and go with -1. If his performance is coming in low or he keeps losing his matches, we could then discuss either lowering his points to 180, or we bump his attack to 4.

I don't need him being a force of destruction to consider his draftability, but I also don't want to over nerf.
I think that's a fair direction. I like him ringing in at the 180-190 level and not going too high on points.
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  #59  
Old January 15th, 2018, 10:21 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

Updated to -1, kept at 190.
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  #60  
Old January 15th, 2018, 11:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Nightcrawler (Kurt Wagner) (II) (Public Play

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Hmmm...perhaps stay at 190 for now, and go with -1. If his performance is coming in low or he keeps losing his matches, we could then discuss either lowering his points to 180, or we bump his attack to 4.

I don't need him being a force of destruction to consider his draftability, but I also don't want to over nerf.
Seems like a solid direction I wouldn't want him to go below 180 for sure.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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