The Pre-SoV Workshop

[wriggz]

It's funny, I find it crazy that someone is creating and updating wiki pages on everything or playing almost any videogame until their fingers bleed or researching almost any movie to an inch of it's life. Whereas I've written as much about heroscape tactics as anyone and spend my share of hours on the dozen or so units I've reviewed, and that feels normal.

Humans are funny that way.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Tornado

So the 5 are just whoever ends up being the first 5 to test the unit?

I give out assignments based on various factors, most notably current backlog. That is, when a new unit comes in I generally assign it to the Judges with the least number of units they're already assigned to. Unfortunately for those of us with higher outputs, that means more work.

[Tornado]

For sure. Cool. Thanks for helping me understand the process.

[AndreThaGiant]

I appreciate all the feedback received so far on the mutants. And I also appreciate your words of affirmation @quozl . My justification for "jackals" was that it seemed fitting especially when considering the multiple uses for the word, referenced from dictionary.com-

JACKAL noun

1. any of several nocturnal wild dogs of the genus Canis, especially C.
aureus, of Asia and Africa, that scavenge or hunt in packs.
2. a person who performs dishonest or base deeds as the follower or
accomplice of another.
3. a person who performs menial or degrading tasks for another.

Now, I'm by no means sold on Jackals, I just thought it sounded cool. Among the several drafts of this card, I have gone through many names such as "War Boys" (directly from Mad Max) and "Badlanders." Beyond the name, I have had trouble finding a good class for them. If it's advised that I utilize a current class as opposed to creating a new one, perhaps I should go with "Raiders?" "Marauders?" "Warmongers?"

Aside from the genus/class/species feedback, I'm also looking for some opinions of the abilities and stats. Here is where I'm at so far-

For anyone that doesn't already know, there are 2 Warhulks in the game so far. Motley Max and Ogre Warhulk. Obviously, the design is intended to reflect Max's realm, and if it's unthematic that they can bond with Ogre Warhulk then I'll have to revisit the design. I received some really good feedback from the Discord server regarding the abilities. I dropped the defense and added TOUGH to add some more apocalypse-esque flavor to the squad vs. just warhulk worshipers.

Another question, I'm not sold on the top sculpt (on the card) since his color is so different than the original 2 that I posted. Is another 2-man Valkrill Squad overkill?

Really looking forward to hearing everyone's thoughts!
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[Scytale]

It's too hard to tell from the card if the 3rd figure fits with the other two. Do you have any pictures of the minis together?

It's probably unnecessary to limit Warhulk Bonding to Large.

Not a fan of Tough here. The sculpts don't suggest it, and it makes Warforged Soldiers less unique. And it makes the squad super useless against special attacks. I don't see a reason not to just have decent Defense, but a flavorful (a version of Defy Death?) defensive ability would be fine.

Brutal Sacrifice is a fun idea, but will have almost no use in practice. Sacrificing your own figure is so rarely worth doing; definitely not for just a re-roll except in extreme circumstances (or just for the fun of it).

Not really a fan of Loyal for the theme you're working with. I don't see Mad Max lakeys as loyal, I see them as nutjobs who follow the strongest around, until they find someone stronger (or take the top spot themselves). Not that Loyal can't work, but it doesn't fit with the story you're telling. Similarly, I don't think Brutal Sacrifice fits with the theme.

There's nothing wrong with making a new class, but it seems to me that Marauders is a perfect fit for your stated theme.

Their Attack is too crappy. Average melee combat power is 3. I don't see these mutants as less than average thematically. Similarly, in terms of gameplay, without Attack 3 they won't be worth taking, and that's with a squad of three.

[Heroscaper Guy]

Originally Posted by Scytale

It's too hard to tell from the card if the 3rd figure fits with the other two. Do you have any pictures of the minis together?

It's probably unnecessary to limit Warhulk Bonding to Large.

Not a fan of Tough here. The sculpts don't suggest it, and it makes Warforged Soldiers less unique. And it makes the squad super useless against special attacks. I don't see a reason not to just have decent Defense, but a flavorful (a version of Defy Death?) defensive ability would be fine.

Brutal Sacrifice is a fun idea, but will have almost no use in practice. Sacrificing your own figure is so rarely worth doing; definitely not for just a re-roll except in extreme circumstances (or just for the fun of it).

Not really a fan of Loyal for the theme you're working with. I don't see Mad Max lakeys as loyal, I see them as nutjobs who follow the strongest around, until they find someone stronger (or take the top spot themselves). Not that Loyal can't work, but it doesn't fit with the story you're telling. Similarly, I don't think Brutal Sacrifice fits with the theme.

There's nothing wrong with making a new class, but it seems to me that Marauders is a perfect fit for your stated theme.

Their Attack is too crappy. Average melee combat power is 3. I don't see these mutants as less than average thematically. Similarly, in terms of gameplay, without Attack 3 they won't be worth taking, and that's with a squad of three.

So since he asked if tough was fine in the discord, whats the difference between tough here and tough on a mummy with just wrappings on it? (not like its the second fig with it either, gorillas, dwarves, mummies, this)

[Dad_Scaper]

I haven't looked at whatever design is being discussed at the moment, so I mean nothing against it, when I point out that "Design A has Feature 1; why shouldn't Design B?" is often tempting as an argument, but rarely persuasive. The burden is on the designer, not the critic, to justify.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Heroscaper Guy

So since he asked if tough was fine in the discord, whats the difference between tough here and tough on a mummy with just wrappings on it? (not like its the second fig with it either, gorillas, dwarves, mummies, this)

Tough isn't wrong here, per se, any more than for any other unit. I always felt it was strange choice for the Gorillinators, and I won't try to justify it for other things. But here, for a bunch of half-naked fleshy things, it feels out of place.

The weakness to special attacks is also worth noting. It tanks the Gorillinators, and they have range. It's not like special attacks are rare.

[AndreThaGiant]

Originally Posted by Scytale

Not really a fan of Loyal for the theme you're working with. I don't see Mad Max lakeys as loyal, I see them as nutjobs who follow the strongest around, until they find someone stronger (or take the top spot themselves). Not that Loyal can't work, but it doesn't fit with the story you're telling.

Not that I make an effort to quote Wikis often, but War Boys are described in the Mad Max Wiki as,

"Indoctrinated as zealots in the cult of V8 with Immortan Joe as their immortal leader. They were based on the Japanese Kamikaze pilots of World War II. They are completely loyal, blindly following their leader, never questioning the morality of his actions. They view death in service to Immortan Joe as an honor."

I've decided on Marauders for the class, but I don't hate loyal for the personality. Do you have a better direction for them? Off the dome, I'm thinking fearless, especially since War Boys despise the idea of "dying softly." On top of that, I believe there is only one 'fearless' squad right now and it's the Axegrinders.

Thoughts?

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by AndreThaGiant

Not that I make an effort to quote Wikis often, but War Boys are described in the Mad Max Wiki as,

"Indoctrinated as zealots in the cult of V8 with Immortan Joe as their immortal leader. They were based on the Japanese Kamikaze pilots of World War II. They are completely loyal, blindly following their leader, never questioning the morality of his actions. They view death in service to Immortan Joe as an honor."

I've decided on Marauders for the class, but I don't hate loyal for the personality. Do you have a better direction for them? Off the dome, I'm thinking fearless, especially since War Boys despise the idea of "dying softly." On top of that, I believe there is only one 'fearless' squad right now and it's the Axegrinders.

Thoughts?

You have a vision for why they are Loyal, and that's fine, but I think it diminishes the theme of the unit. Most people that look at the card will not have read the Max Max Wiki. I don't think you should focus them so much on a single inspiration, but instead look at the broad trope of wasteland marauders: vicious, amoral hooligans.

"Loyal" has a noble vibe in Heroscape, and "Fearless" has a mild valiant connotation. "Wild" is a natural fit here. "Merciless" and "Tormenting" could also fit, though I would hope the design would justify them. Could make something up too, like "Barbarous."

[AndreThaGiant]

That's a great perspective. Thanks!

[TheAverageFan]

What about Devout? That can potentially be a more sinister version of Loyal. I've used it for that before.

~TAF