The Book of Blacksmith

[japes]

4A is probably my favorite of those options but I will say that a defense boost is intriguing.

Just to make sure I understand 4B. If the Defender rolls more Shields than you roll skulls nothing happens. But if you actually hit with the SA they get a bonus wound? I thought the issue with Rogues SA was they didn't score often enough.

Option 6
At the start of the game, you may choose up to 5 Unique Rogue Heroes you control and place a black Rogue Marker on each of their cards. After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Blacksmith, you may take a turn with one other Hero you control with your Rogue Marker on its card. While there is a revealed Order Marker on Blacksmith's card, when any figure you control with a Rogue Marker on its card attacks with a special attack, If they did not wound a figure, they may attack one additional time.

[Arch-vile]

I like Japes's idea above. Gives the Rogues reliability over potential major swings.

[MrNobody]

More attacks = more chance to catch Flash off guard, but also more chances for him to evade and run out of range. I like it.

[IAmBatman]

I like that option for number 6, japes. The Trickster example makes me think we should probably put "may attack one additional time with a normal or special attack" or something along those lines.

[japes]

For the Record I think I stole that from @johnny139 Don't think it was my original idea. Though I could be wrong. I've been up really late all week. You guys are killing me keeping me up past my bedtime. I've been inspired though.

[johnny139]

I don't remember saying it, but I think it's a good idea, so I'm happy to take credit.

[Lord Pyre]

This needs to be addressed when adding attacks to Special Attacks. It's more complicated than adding a single die:

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Still fine with 1. Don’t see how 4 is any different, but whatever. The issue with 4 is multi attacks. If you use some like like auto shotgun that already lets you attack twice, so you attack once more or use the powers once more, effectively attacking twice more? Or Storms SA. I know it’s limited to rogues, but it seems messier than just adding a single die if we would ever have powers like that.

[Ronin]

Do we need the markers? I know they're representing the idea of upgrades, but 5 is pretty generous anyway, and this looks a lot cleaner to me:

After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Blacksmith, you may take a turn with any Rogue Hero you control. While there is a revealed Order Marker on this card, when a Rogue you control attacks with a special attack, if it did not wound a figure, it may attack one additional time with a normal or special attack.

[tcglkn]

Rogues are fairly cheap, I would worry about how she scaled without markers.

[LordVenoc]

I'd be worried how the double special attack is gonna look in Waller builds. Double Rogue turns (potentially triple with Cold I) with two shots at their Special Attacks sounds like a heck of a lot of potential.

[IAmBatman]

I mean, I'm fine with dropping the markers. They were originally there as a check to concerns about modifying special attacks. If we're moving away from straight modifications into territory we've already done with Evil Dead (that's a precedent on Ash Williams for the double attacks for special attacks, LP) then I'd be OK with dropping the markers if other folks are.

I also, honestly, heartily, agree that granting a double attack to special attacks and adding +1 to special attacks has about the same level of disruption/potential concern, but one is seen as a sacred cow and one we've actually done as a group, so I'm kind of in "pick your battles" mode. I think either hits the theme I want (she upgrades the Rogues' abilities and effectiveness) and either hit the mechanical interactions I want for the faction.

A dangling concern for going with japes' proposal is whether @japes is OK with how she will synergize with the Rogues thematically. I know there was some discussion on that in the LCW and on Discord and I want to know his concerns have been satisfied before trying to move forward.

For the mechanics of #6 itself, I think there are easy ways to make it clearer, such as if the Rogue attacks with a special attack, they get one additional turn in which they can only attack, or something like that.

[IAmBatman]

Here's what I'm thinking to address stated concerns, including the one LV 'd me with:

ROGUE UPGRADES
After revealing an Order Marker on this card and taking a turn with Blacksmith, you may take a turn with one other Rogue Hero you control.
After taking a turn this way, if that Rogue attacked with a special attack and did not inflict any wounds, you may immediately take an additional turn with that Rogue, during which it cannot move.