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Old October 14th, 2021, 09:48 PM
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Legolas - Rough Draft

LEGOLAS Rough Draft 1.2

NAME = LEGOLAS

GENERAL = ULLAR
SPECIES = ELF
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = ARCHER
PERSONALITY = PRECISE
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 5
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 3
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 150

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Legolas attacks, he may attack one additional time.

DEFENSIVE AGILITY
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, one shield will block all damage.

ELVEN SIGHT
If Legolas would have Height Advantage on an opponent's figure, he may add 2 to his Range when attacking that figure.

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT


Last edited by TheAverageFan; October 19th, 2021 at 04:49 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2021, 09:48 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

[reserved]

~TAF

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

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Old October 14th, 2021, 09:59 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

Design Thoughts:
Legolas already exists in Heroscape: his name is Syvarris. Legolas is of course similar in many ways. Double Attack is part of what makes Syvarris such a good sniper unit, and Legolas has his double knives so it already makes sense in a melee context. A boost to his melee with said knives makes enough sense though it could be dropped easily for space. Lastly Elven Sight gives Legolas extra Range with Height Advantage, good for use both in the field and atop the walls of the Hornburg. Wording as is could maybe use some work.

5 Life is fine for an Elf, though Heroscape Elves have Life values all over the place. 6 Move is good for him and while some might recoil at only 6 Range Legolas can boost it with Elven Sight (and honestly Legolas is not necessarily a renowned archer character due to the distance of his shots). 3/3 on attack and defense seems appropriate; not too high and not too low. Points are at 150 but honestly it could go up or down depending on his performance and potential. Since he isn't a Wizard he receives only limited bonuses from his Species as an Elf.

Archer for Class, though Adventurer or even Prince would suffice. Precise for Personality, though Loyal or Tricky could work.


Other Power Ideas:
Elven Attributes: Disengage, free movement, Ghost Walk, reduced Falling damage, terrain negation, or tree/brush bonuses could all work.
Fellowship or Three Hunter Bonding: Likely OM-revealed Movement Bonding for easier use of either adventuring party.
Sighting: A buff to ranged fire with height could be good, though it starts to border on extremely powerful if you ask me.
Double Assault: Trading Double Attack for Double Assault could be a fix should 2 ranged attacks be too strong.
Elven Knives: Attack bonus when adjacent for Lego's swords


Let the workshopping begin!

~TAF

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT


Last edited by TheAverageFan; October 18th, 2021 at 09:17 PM.
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Old October 14th, 2021, 11:01 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

Looks pretty cool. I'm happy to see you guys back at the Middle earth Customs thread. I'm really liking what I see for Legolas. Its a bit like Syvarris as you noted above but has a little bit of a change to it. The only thing that it lacks that really represents legolas is the agility factor. While there can be a lot of things said about how he shoots, and what range he has, it shows that he can be damaged quite easily. With 3 defense and no real way to avoid a hit, he will most likely go down fairly quickly. I would perhaps borrow the Warriors of Ashra ability or give him some little gimmick to have a chance to avoid wounds. Take em or leave em. Those are my pennies. I'm a big fan of this franchise and like that its starting back up. Hopefully many folks will become part of this project and see it forward.
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Old October 18th, 2021, 08:00 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

I'm feeling the Warrior's of Ashra ability could be good here too but my fandom might be showing too much, the movies made him pretty cool. I like the representation of Elven Eyesight a lot, as far as I know there is only 1 version of Legolas planned (maybe?) so the decisions are hard here.

I'd honestly be fine with dropping Elven Knives for Defensive Agility here as it would tie the design together for me. I don't think his knives need a buff, double attack should be enough to communicate him either firing 2 arrow rapidly or attacking with 2 knives.

Alternatively, if double attack proves to be too overwhelming on the design it could be limited to something like:

DUAL BLADES
When attacking an adjacent figure Legolas may attack 1 additional time.

Customs are for home use and enjoyment first and foremost.
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Old October 19th, 2021, 10:02 AM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

I like double attack much more than dual blades; this isn't a figure that should be incentivized to engage in mele-combat. That's not what Legolas was best at.

Is the extreme height boost needed? The only time he would have had that in LoTR would be at Helms Deep. 8 range seems good but the possible 10 seems too strong, and would never matter in a tournament-style map anyways. I think the power can just be +2 range for any height edge.
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Old October 19th, 2021, 04:18 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

Good point, no reason to deviate from double attack. Was more of a fall back. Still think that we could drop elven knives for defensive agility, especially if you are saying that we shouldnt incentivize melee combat for him. A defensive power would help him survive but not be a huge draw like Dual Blades was.

I agree, extreme height boost could be cut, we save space and dont lose anything thematic.

Customs are for home use and enjoyment first and foremost.
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Old October 19th, 2021, 04:51 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

OP actually swapped out Knives for Defensive Agility a short while ago. Dropped extreme height from Elven Sight as per request (8 Range is plenty enough after all).

I hope Defensive Agility doesn't make him too tough for melee armies, but the Warriors of Ashra aren't that bad to deal with in my experience. Stealth Dodge is much much stronger.

~TAF

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in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

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Old December 9th, 2021, 11:10 AM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

Defensive agility is just overpowered for a range unit IMO - it's tough enough for a melee army to get at a figure with 8 range, and it's so much worse if they get 1 shield defense when they finally get there. He's relatively easy to take down from other range units (I think Marro Warriors or Krav Maga would eat Legolas for lunch) but he's darn near impossible to defeat with a melee army. Overall that leaves for what in my opinion is a really imbalanced figure. I'd prefer something that gave him a little bit more survivability overall (including against range armies - where he's definitely not worth 150 points) that doesn't make him so unstoppable when facing melee armies.

Just my 2 cents.
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Old December 9th, 2021, 10:06 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

On paper current Legolas is very swingy for his price tag. Defensive agility isn't half as good as Stealth Dodge but it could be very nasty compared to the WoA since Lego has more than 1 Life. However similar units that are a death knell to normal melee only such as X17 and Hatamato Taro are considered niche at best. So we'll see how it pans out in playtesting

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Old December 9th, 2021, 10:27 PM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

Elven Sight is a great power concept as well as name. I think you did enough to distinguish him from Syvarris to make people want to draft him, even for the extra points.

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Old December 11th, 2021, 11:47 AM
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Re: Legolas - Rough Draft

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
On paper current Legolas is very swingy for his price tag. Defensive agility isn't half as good as Stealth Dodge but it could be very nasty compared to the WoA since Lego has more than 1 Life. However similar units that are a death knell to normal melee only such as X17 and Hatamato Taro are considered niche at best. So we'll see how it pans out in playtesting

~TAF ,
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm trying to get at. He's super swingy and imo niche at best. But he would be so dominant in that niche as to make him almost unplayable even in niche situations.

I'd prefer nuking Defensive Agility for a more general ability to make him more useable. It would kind of suck to spend 150 on Legolas just to have the Marro Warriors or 4th Mass take him down in a turn or two.

So, my argument is basically: he's too weak as-is, and his survivability is bad. It's only compounded by the fact that it'll be tough getting an opponent to play with you in the one niche in which he'd shine because at that point he's TOO good.
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