The Book of Two-Face (II)

[Ronin]

I think that direction moves him too much into the same territory as Two-Face I. Just makes him someone you don't want to risk an OM on when it really counts.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I think that direction moves him too much into the same territory as Two-Face I. Just makes him someone you don't want to risk an OM on when it really counts.

Which part. The rolling each turn or the bonding options. I agree if the rolling/flipping each turn. I think once per round is enough rolling/flipping and then you plan your strategy for the round.

[Yodaking]

IDK about that assessment. The current Two-Face can screw you over by not attacking at all 50% of the time you activate him. This Two-Face gives you a double att. every time you activate him so even if the coin flip does not give you what you want you still have his double att. I'd actually consider maybe making the coin flip result an add on to his full turn rather than instead of. Something like this:

COIN FLIP DUALITY
At the start of each turn after revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip the Two-Face coin. If the Good Side comes up, after taking a turn with Two-Face you may take a turn with one other Crime Lord or Criminal Hero or Criminal Squad you control in which they may only move. If the Scarred Side comes up, after taking a turn with Two-Face you may take a turn with one other Crime Lord or Criminal Heroes or Criminal Squad you control in which they may only attack.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Two-Face attacks, he may attack one additional time.

That makes 1OM on Two-Face = Full Turn w/Two-Face in which he can att. twice, plus a 50/50 chance for moving or attacking with another Crime Lord/Criminal/Criminal Squad you control. That makes him the leader of a crime syndicate that is safe for OM placement but somewhat chaotic leadership based on a coin flip. Sometimes he is having people attack, other times he is moving up reinforcements.

[Ronin]

Sorry, should have been more specific. Yeah, I was specifically referring to having to flip before each turn. He should be a little more reliable than that. I'm not too concerned about exactly what effect we end up with for the Good side, so long as it's not more powerful than the Bad side.

[japes]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Sorry, should have been more specific. Yeah, I was specifically referring to having to flip before each turn. He should be a little more reliable than that. I'm not too concerned about exactly what effect we end up with for the Good side, so long as it's not more powerful than the Bad side.

The rationale was that the good side he's more stable and clear thinking strategist and the bad side he's sadistic therefore more attack...Nothing to do with Good and Bad in the essence that the good side needs to be better than the bad side. It was meant that both sides are "good" just a different "good"

[japes]

Originally Posted by Yodaking

IDK about that assessment. The current Two-Face can screw you over by not attacking at all 50% of the time you activate him. This Two-Face gives you a double att. every time you activate him so even if the coin flip does not give you what you want you still have his double att. I'd actually consider maybe making the coin flip result an add on to his full turn rather than instead of. Something like this:

COIN FLIP DUALITY
At the start of each turn after revealing an Order Marker on this card, flip the Two-Face coin. If the Good Side comes up, after taking a turn with Two-Face you may take a turn with one other Crime Lord or Criminal Hero or Criminal Squad you control in which they may only move. If the Scarred Side comes up, after taking a turn with Two-Face you may take a turn with one other Crime Lord or Criminal Heroes or Criminal Squad you control in which they may only attack.

DOUBLE ATTACK
When Two-Face attacks, he may attack one additional time.

That makes 1OM on Two-Face = Full Turn w/Two-Face in which he can att. twice, plus a 50/50 chance for moving or attacking with another Crime Lord/Criminal/Criminal Squad you control. That makes him the leader of a crime syndicate that is safe for OM placement but somewhat chaotic leadership based on a coin flip. Sometimes he is having people attack, other times he is moving up reinforcements.

Yeah my next progression was for it to be in addition to his turn so I'm with you there. Seeing it written out fully like this, I wouldn't have an issue with this or the roll once a round idea.

[Arkham]

I'm not sure how I feel about the turn by turn coin flips, especially with the rewards reduced compared to the version we currently have(2 full turns vs. 1 turn that has to be Two-Face and an extra attack from someone else that needs to be in position already), but with added risk.

I'd be more on board with the turn by turn if I felt the Good Side had more consistent benefit rather than feeling like a disappointing result. That's the issue I was originally addressing and hoping to change.

Not only that, we're essentially taking Two-Face to the front lines with this version, which he'd be destroyed rather easily compared to a figure that can hang back in the starting area forcing the opponent to have to reach him. With 4 life and defense, and no defensive specials, he's not a very good hub to have on the front lines risking all of your turns.

[Yodaking]

That is true, he wouldn't last long on the front lines so maybe bonding with him won't work.

[Arkham]

I propose a vote to move to Initial Playtesting.
@TrollBrute
@johnny139
@Zettian Juggernaut
@Yodaking
@Tornado
@japes
@Viegon

[Tornado]

Yea

[japes]

Originally Posted by Arkham

So far, I'm thinking maybe the "Good Side" benefit needs to be a little more prominent/useful. Through playing, I noticed a pattern of "Scarred Side" was really useful, but a result of "Good Side" had him sitting there for the round as a non factor for the most part. Perhaps the OM function could be better to make it feel a little more useful and with a bit more "punch":

This approach feels very much like Two-Face is the one handing out orders, and planning on the fly. It's limited to Criminal/Crime Lord Heroes/Squads so it shouldn't lead to broken combos, and Two-Face with a Life and Defense of 4 should make it a high risk/high reward power.

Otherwise, if we're not feeling that, perhaps something with OM management with some movement thrown in? Cyclops' Mutant Field Commander could be a good bit to riff from, and find a toned down version of it to put on here:

Are we voting for what's in the SP? Because if you aren't happy with it after a few tests lets get it to where you are happy with it before testing. Not much use in continuing testing if you aren't happy and want to make changes.

I liked the SP version but I haven't played it yet so I can't comment onto the play ability as well as you can.

If you are thinking of going the Criminal Field Commander (riffing off of Mutant Field Commander) I'm OK there as well.

Just to be clear I would vote yea for either the SP or the other version I just want to make sure it's clear to the others which version you want.

[Arkham]

Voting on what's currently in the SP. We can always make tweaks going into Public testing.

A small tweak of adding in figure movement to the good side would likely suffice. So it has a bit more use/reason to put an OM on him.