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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #37  
Old October 24th, 2018, 12:05 AM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

He's playing pretty well thus far. No concerns from what I've experienced. I wanted to get some games in to allow us to advance to public(in sanctum) testing sooner rather than later, which if everything checks out, I will run another few games to keep it moving.

If we keep Jump Scare, perhaps we allow for a blank to be counted as a skull or something to that effect to give it a little more oomph.

He's feeling like he comes in around 80 right now, which means if you prefer 4 attack, we'd be around the 100 mark you had originally shot for.

Edit: And just to clarify, what I was proposing for Hallowed Tradition would be to allow you to modify rolls of any Creature, Slasher, or Undead you control, Secret Identity or not. So that’d give him quite a few options. Since those are who you are encouraged to pair him with anyways, I just felt it was a natural fit to allow all of those figures to benefit whether they had a Secret Identity or not. It also eliminates him from being oddly paired with armies that have nothing to do with him, only for the use of that power. I’m content either way though. I liked using him with Pinhead after all, so I wouldn’t advocate to lose that, it just feels odd that Leatherface can benefit from the power but Michael can’t, who’s a guy that literally walks around on Halloween in a Halloween mask killing and playing tricks on people. That’s where it feels like basing it off secret identity is a stretch.

It wouldn’t hurt to broaden the branch 1 more, and extend to Demons(for both the first power and this), mirroring the 4 stories told in the film and comic(Demon/Slasher = Sam, Dad and Son = Slasher, kids = Undead, Creatures). There’s an argument to be made that Sam should be a Demon rather than Entity, as his bio very much states he’s demonic and possibly even a demon born in a pumpkin patch. Then just have it be if you control the figure and they are a Creature, Demon, Slasher, or Undead, you can use the re-roll. If you do not control the figure and they are not a Creature, Demon, Slasher, or Undead, you can force them to re-roll. Still gets the halloween theme off quite nicely imo and accomplishes a lot. Gives Sam 3 established synergies to support, and even has him establishing synergy for Demons(which also captures Pinhead). Somewhere around 40 characters fall into those categories. He hits some of the most common Halloween themes. And it allows the opponent an exclusion if they are playing a Halloween themed army, and punished if not.

Last edited by Arkham; October 24th, 2018 at 02:21 AM.
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  #38  
Old October 24th, 2018, 08:49 AM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Definitely meant to drop the attack to 3, so you're good to go there.

For adding those tags - I'm torn. Just being a Creature doesn't make you a Halloween type... but neither does having a code name (like, Elektra's isn't even a code name, it's just her first name!). I get the weirdness with leaving guys like Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees out, since they're very, VERY Halloween-y. Guys going around in masks causing mayhem. The power is already kind of weird, so I'm hesitant to add too much...

I could go with Slashers, I think, if people are in favor of that. Undead and Creature (and Demon) overlap with Halloween and scary stories but I don't think it's as 1:1 as Slashers.

As for Demon, that's not something I see at all. Based on my reading of his comic book backstories and such, he's real ancient and kind of a guardian figure, so long as you play by his rules. He's an absolutely neutral entity, not a demonic one. I don't think Pinhead really qualifies and I definitely don't think Sam does.

For pumping Jump Scare - fine by me. I would give tue defending figure -1 Defense though, which I think sells the surprise feeling better.
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  #39  
Old October 24th, 2018, 09:08 AM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Fear is usually represented by a negative to Defense.

A cloud can change its semblance, yet retain its will
With the intimacy of destruction, One knows what it is to be alive
The empty sky holds no reflection, for sorrow
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  #40  
Old October 24th, 2018, 10:33 AM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I was suggesting Demon because that seems to be the most common description of what he is, or what he is like. Every bio or description any site offers of him, always mentions him as a demonic creature that may very well be a demon. Nothing says for sure, but there's more supporting the demon label than an entity label.

Not a big deal either way, but it just seems most fitting based on the descriptions and theme.

As for the power, his card is pretty simple head space wise. Jump Scare won't come up often if at all, Trick R Treat is only when rolling initiative, and Hallowed Tradition is limited to essentially a once per round X reveal after dice are rolled. If we want to spell Hallowed Traditions out a bit to capture those we want, I don't think it'd become too complex.
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  #41  
Old October 24th, 2018, 03:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Definitely seems really strong to me at first glance. Trick 'R' Treat has perfect OM efficiency, and more or less guarantees infinite range +1 attack against a target of choice (unless you sap OMs, which is great as well, unless you're dealing with an army with an OM hub and no X powers). The "X" ability is extremely strong because it has infinite range and you can build your army to guarantee its use (not even hard since most undead, creatures, and slashers have secret Identities).

I'll also note that the boosting powers work for allied event heroes or squads. Testing this with Dracula & Brides, or with Black Lantern, seems prudent. I daresay Dracula+Brides+Sam+filler (Jason, The Crow, etc) would be very strong against the builds we saw.

All in all it's a nice package of passive powers that you can use from the back of the startzone. If Sam was forced to be within some sort of range (6 clear sight?) of a given figure in order to use the first two powers, then that would definitely lower my level of concern.
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  #42  
Old October 24th, 2018, 03:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I’d be fine with a range. Sam is usually seen watching the events unfold, and in my tests I usually had him within that range anyways just because I had an activation with Pinhead to use or the Warriors Three brought the fight to the Creature’s start zone. So those would remain valid.
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  #43  
Old October 24th, 2018, 04:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
I’d be fine with a range. Sam is usually seen watching the events unfold, and in my tests I usually had him within that range anyways just because I had an activation with Pinhead to use or the Warriors Three brought the fight to the Creature’s start zone. So those would remain valid.
I figured as much; I just want to avoid exploitative play using him in a purely passive way.
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  #44  
Old October 24th, 2018, 04:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I believe this accomplishes everything discussed:

Quote:
TRICK 'R TREAT
If you win initiative, you may choose an opponent's Army Card with at least one Order Marker on it. That opponent may remove one Order Marker from that Army Card. If they do not, Sam and all Creatures, Slashers, and Undead you control within 6 spaces of Sam roll 1 additional die when attacking that Army Card's figure this round.

HALLOWED TRADITION
After any dice are rolled for Sam or a figure within 6 spaces of Sam, if that figure is a friendly Slasher, a friendly figure with a Secret Identity, or an enemy figure without a Secret Identity, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card to immediately re-roll all the dice once.

JUMP SCARE
Before moving, you may choose an opponent's figure that Sam is not within clear sight of. As long as Sam ends his movement engaged with that figure, he adds 3 to his Move number, may ignore his height when moving, and if Sam attacks the chosen figure this turn, the chosen figure subtracts 1 from its defense dice.
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  #45  
Old October 24th, 2018, 04:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

I would also tag "Common or Unique" onto Hallowed Traditions, just to box out any huge effects. We already mentioned Odin and Dracula and all that. But that looks good to me.
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  #46  
Old October 24th, 2018, 04:24 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

Updated the SP with those changes and linked the Initials in the OP.

If you're happy with where we're at design wise and happy with the initial results, I'd say let's call for a vote for In Sanctum testing and see if we can get at least 2 other testers' hands on him in the next 5 days. I will run another few games tonight to help that along. I also have the mini done which I will post the tutorial and all that in the third post.
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  #47  
Old October 24th, 2018, 04:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

If you only want to cut out Event heroes, I'd just tag that on the end.

Hallowed Tradition does not effect Event Heroes.
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  #48  
Old October 24th, 2018, 04:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Sam (VOTE for Initial)

yea

6 clear sight restrictions were a good addition. That should definitely be included in the future check list set of questions. Do any powers have an unlimited range on them? The Cosmic Cube & Puppet Master have already changed based on that.
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