The Meaning of Life?

[wisinger]

Okay, kind of a deep topic? maybe. Not real sure, but always looking for other insights. Thoughts, opinions, suggests would be most welcome.

Background:
Late in the teen years, I ran into some problems, and was told, a large part of the solution to my problems, is to behave and act in a "selfless" manner. Over the next several years, I have done my best to do what I interpret that to mean. I believe I have been fairly successful at accomplishing my main goals. No real problems, a decent spouse, parent, employee, citizen, etc.

The Big Question:
Over the last several years, I have started to revisit the concept of "Selflessness", and have found myself in quite a quandary (am I using this word right?). In every cognitive act that I can conceive of, I can also find a "selfish" motive. Primarily in the area of "feeling". for example, I run across a little old lady on the side of the road with a flat. I am running late to work, but decide to stop and change her tire for her. While on the surface, this seems to be a selfless act, but the end result, is that I feel good about the act (it feels good to do for another person something, even if there is a "cost" to yourself). So based on that conclusion, what cognitive act, can a person do that is truly considered selfless? Is there such a thing.

A couple of other points:
- I had to add cognitive act to my original question (what is a selfless act), as I can't conceive of a non cognitive act. I just can't get my mind wrapped around it.

- Even considering something like "enlightenment", either thru Christianity or otherwise (the only faiths I have any familiarity with are Christianity, and a bit of Buddhism), I have found, to my definition, that they are disqualified due to the base intent of the faiths. The ultimate goal is selfish in nature (Heaven, Nirvana, Enlightenment, etc).

- At this point in my life, I am not sure that there is a true answer to this question, if I am wasting what precious brain cells I have left, etc. It seems to me to generate even more basic questions, that I struggle with (pm me if interested, as I don't want to bore or scare the rest of the community here, with my base insanity) and can't seem to find an answer, or direction to look in for the answers.

- If I ever do find an answer to this question, I think I am screwed anyway, by the criteria for finding the answer, since it is a selfish question to begin with, so maybe this is a waste of time.

- If you read this and found it incredibly boring, I apologize for wasting your time. A part of me feels like an idiot for posting something of this nature on a web site dedicated to a game.

[django]

Im probably the last person anyone here wants to hear anything from but i think the meaning of life is not as deep at people think it is.here is what i think your born,mate,spawn a kid,and then protect them for as long as you can so they can live and do the same and if you get killed protecting them you served your purpose thats it .my

[Su_Nan]

I keep trying to find the meaning of life but your avatar keeps derailing my train of thought :P

My ?

Live your life to its fullest and be a good person.

[skyknight]

I think you may have missed the point, though I am no seer or prophet by any stretch of the imagination this is what I think. You said that from helping the old lady it is still a selfish act because you feel good about it. Here's my question, why would you feel good about such a thing? Why should you get a reward for helping someone? Why does charity fill you with a warm fuzzy? To me there really is no reason that you should feel rewarded over such an act so why do we?
Well I think because along the way we were given this reward so that our good deeds would fill us up. If you are religous this has major implications.. I mean why should giving up your last piece of bread to a stranger so they may live make you feel good? That goes against instinct, yet it does make you feel good. Therefore somewhere deep in your mind you have a program installed that allows you to be gracious and kind and feel good about it. So if we are programmed on a primal level to be gracious to eachother then I think that is your meaning of life wether passed down from God or evolution. To live as best you can and take care of those around you.
I often think the same thing about the male body, everyone always talks about how males are stronger and larger and a bit more aggressive? Why is that neccessary? I can only think of one reason. To protect those that you love from those who would do them harm. I think the question of why we are here is different for males and females. Females are here to continue the existence of our species. Males are here to be the guardians of those females and if neccessary die in the process. Another instinctual program, the only reason I do not want to die for my family is because I wonder who would take care of them and protect them when I am gone. I do not want my children to not have a father, I want to be there as a wall. I have never understood how fathers escape burning fires but lose their children. It just seems to me that it could never happen.
Around my children and wife I am as doscile as they get. But deep down there is a spark, I think most males know what I mean. When I used to play Rugby I was able to kindle that spark into controllable levels, but I would still become this other thing I guess. The feel of my shoulder driving into someones bare ribs and hearing the wind expelled fired up that spark for me as it did others, yet it never got dangerous. The Army also helped blow on that flame a few times as well. Many people will tell you that this spark is dangerous but I do not think so. I think it is their to be your friend, your companion in times of need.
I think that fire deep down inside is another indication of our purpose. It is not yours to do with as you please, it is built into the machine that is your body. And when you add any part to a machine or program you do not do so unless it serves a purpose. Many people say you must live for yourself but I do not think that is really true. I am happiest whne I am living for my family and shielding them from those who would do them harm. Without a family to protect and love a male is really in my opinion a bit useless. Kind of like an Alpha Wolf with no pack. What is the point of all that strength and agression if you have no positive direction in which to steer it. I think if you do a study of our prison systems you will find a very disproportianite amount of unmarried males. This is just my guess but without those proper outlets to nuture that spark I think it may lead a male in a very bad direction. Anyways Wis I do not think this answers any of your questions but I am just giving my opinion on why you are here.

In a nutshell, to protect, serve and need be die. I can think of nothing more fullfilling.

[Nooblar]

To be fair, most everything a human does can be considered "selfish" or that the end result is beneficial to the person. It's the nature of things.

However, I do not think it is reasonable to discount religion because of this. I speak specifically from the viewpoint of Christianity. I believe God created man with a need for many things, and man's purpose is to fulfill those needs. Specifically, God created man with a need for a relationship with God, and our ultimate purpose is to have a close relationship with Him.

Your questions at this stage in life are a recognition of a need that has not yet been met. You've done all the "normal" things that our culture defines as success, yet there is still a need.

My favorite quote about the meaning of life is in Equilibrium, when the prisoner says, "You exist to continue your existance. What's the point?" Ask yourself what the point is in life, first from a non-religious viewpoint, then from a religious one. You will find that if you turn to God, this sense of emptiness will go away, and I can attest to that.

Please PM me if you want to talk, or if you have questions. I know that RevDyer is a pastor, and he'd be willing to answer questions, too.

[Rodriquez]

Originally Posted by wisinger

a decent spouse, parent, employee, citizen, etc.

just decent? I wouldna let lilwis hear that one... remember she does have all those 4th mass she can line up in front of ye..

cheers
Rod

[Rodriquez]

as to meaning of life and selfishness...
life: we're here...yer here, everyone else is around..deal with it as ye like...it's yer reality, it's yer life...do what makes ye happy for the most part...with some restrictions(I don't condone massive killing b/c it makes ye happy...)..

Selfishness: every act can be construed in a selfish way just as almost every act can be construed in a selfless way..

ye've got a mind, intelligience..and a survival instinct..which means every act ye do yer gonna look at how it "helps" ye, ie either physical, mentally, etc..

the question is really are ye satisfied with yerself and how yer life is moving/going? if not than why? what's wrong with it or what is wrong with yer perception of it?

there's no real answer to life's meaning..just yer perception of it..

didna ye know? we're all dreams of the dolphin

[-Zim-]

42...that's all I have to say.

[HyperactiveSloth]

The questions you ask yourself now are ancient ones. It's the old debate over whether or not altruism is possible, due to the internal benefits of selfless acts.
The important thing that seems to be missed in these debates is that there is nothing wrong with being happy.
One of the main reasons why selflessness is good and selfishness is bad is that selfish behavior causes societal imbalance. If everyone were loving toward everyone else, then everyone would be loved. Does that make love selfish? No, it creates balance.
If you wanted to be totally selfless you would have to deny yourself everything, even the kindness of others and by denying that you would actually be hurting them, therefore actually accomplishing the opposite of what the goal of selflessness is. (Wrap your head around that one!)
Not only is it OK to feel good about helping others, it means that you have a balanced and unselfish attitude.

In the end, the key is not worrying about being selfless, but rather NOT being selfish. It is important for everyone to seek their own happiness as long as it does not take that away from others in the process. Instead of thinking about selflessness in absolute terms, think in terms of the balance. It's like the old saying goes, "The only thing more important than learning how to give good gifts is learning how to accept them."

I would elaborate more, but I have to go do something right now. Feel free to PM me if you wish to talk more about this.

[django]

Originally Posted by -Zim-

42...that's all I have to say.

[Avenger]

ummm... im not trying to be mean or anything, but i don't think there is a meaning of life.
There might be good advice on how to live it, such as being selfless, but there is no "meaning".

Just be happy and not be mean. that's my advice.

[lilwis]

The answer seems to be a self defeating one. The more knowledge/experience/intelligence a person gains, the more 'walls' he sets around himself because through the knoweldge/experience/intelligence, cognitive thought has been conditioned to a near automatic level that there is 'another step'.

However, I will toss out a close proximity to the answer:
A child who is still wrapped in innocence and the wonder of all sees no distinction of the subtleties of gray and silver ..or even black and white, for that matter. One color is as good as the next. The left breast for suckling is as good as the right. It's food.

Over time and experience, they learn what feels good and what feels bad. They gain knowledge of what behavior will get what type of reaction/response.
However, before they get too deep embedded in this process of 'adapting to the 'accepted' behavior' of those around them, something very close to a cognitive selfless act happens:

They see someone sad. They don't understand the reason and they don't understand the situation. They fetch their favorite toy and place it in that person's hands. They smile, and then they walk away to go on about their business.
It is their favorite toy and brings them comfort. They give it, hoping it will bring the sad person comfort. (Again, possibly a learned behavior because Mommy and Daddy gets it for them when they are distraught, or possibly because it is something innate in all of us that wants to restore the balance) But by doing that, they have achieved a selfless act. They don't know at that age that 'it feels good' to help. They only know that they saw something 'off' and they wanted to do something about it. And then they are examining their toes and wondering why it is wriggling of its own volition.

The wearing away of innocence at its purest form negates the cognitive recognition of a cognitive selfless act.


The meaning of life: Is variable and dependent on what the individual wants for himself at its core, and their perception of how it relates to the rest of the world as a whole.

There's my on the whole thing.
There, Reaper. I've reclaimed myself.