Public Design Workshop

[japes]

Originally Posted by Karat

Just spitballing, but I'd work it something like this.

THUNDEROUS CLAP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range special. Attack 6.
Instead of moving normally, Hulk may use his Thunderous Clap Special Attack. All figures within 3 spaces of Hulk are affected by Thunderous Clap Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for each affected figure. Affected figures roll defense separately. After attacking, move each affected figure X spaces, where X is equal to the number of skulls rolled, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. Affected figures must be placed further away from Hulk than where they started.

This version lets him do the clap and then attack.
"Instead of his normal turn" maybe instead?

Other than that I like it...especially the knockback part.

Edit...actually instead of all figures within 3 spaces it should be a line in front of him probably similar to cyclops or something...

[Midgieboy3]

Originally Posted by Karat

Just spitballing, but I'd work it something like this.

THUNDEROUS CLAP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range special. Attack 6.
Instead of moving normally, Hulk may use his Thunderous Clap Special Attack. All figures within 3 spaces of Hulk are affected by Thunderous Clap Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for each affected figure. Affected figures roll defense separately. After attacking, move each affected figure X spaces, where X is equal to the number of skulls rolled, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. Affected figures must be placed further away from Hulk than where they started.

I would like to see him be able to super leap first then THUNDEROUS CLAP SPECIAL ATTACK. It would be awesome.

[laughing matter]

Yeah I think instead of attacking normally would be better, especially since his attack can get so high.

EDIT: Also I like just Thunderclap, or Thunder Clap, because that's what it's called in the comics.

[laughing matter]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Why not replace these with something like this:

WORLDBREAKER
Add 2 to Incredible Hulk's Attack and Defense numbers for each Rage Marker on this card. Before rolling for initiative, you may remove 1 Wound Marker from this card or the card of a figure adjacent to Incredible Hulk.

That saves a lot of text, and the only major difference is that your version would wait until the end of a turn to amp Hulk's stats. Technically, the marker placement also changes things up slightly (In the original version, Zatanna could remove a Rage Marker to debuff his stats without healing him).

I forgot to mention this earlier, but that version of WORLDBREAKER doesn't tell how he gets his rage markers, and doesn't offer any reason to remove them. Essentially it removes a very necessary chunk of text, and offers a healing ability with no penalty, which most healing powers have. Also it removes the requirement of hulk having to have a wound to heal, eliminating the blood theme. I would still be open to combining the two though.

[Ronin]

Thanks for the feedback, guys!

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Just a thought - if you didn't want to necessarily do a later, reformed version of Songbird, but instead wanted her to be able to work as either, you could probably give her some power like the Beat Cops' On the Take which would allow her to be both a Charlatan and a Crime Fighter, just not at the same time.

I thought about that, but it seemed like a lot to fit in with everything else I'd want on a later version of her. That said, I think I could actually work all that into one power, something like this:

THUNDERBOLT REDEMPTION
If there are no figures in your army with the Justice Like Lightning special power, you may choose one Unique Hero in your army that is a Criminal or has a Repentant personality. For the entire game, Songbird and the chosen figure have a Class of Crime Fighter instead of what is listed on their Army Cards.

That might actually be a good way to streamline. (If I were to give Citizen V another (unique) power, Thunderbolt Redemption might reference that instead)

Looking at your designs now, I'm really liking what I see. (The grammar buff in me still doesn't like the three option either in Tech Pack, though.) Just a thought, I'm wondering if it would be cool for Citizen V to have some sort of power to represent how the Thunderbolts were just a plot to gain trust, some form of manipulation or something like that. I'm getting leader off him right now, but not really devious mastermind. I think he just needs a little something more when it comes to that.

Yeah, there's room for something more on Citizen V with Crime Fighter Deception off the card, but I'm not sure what I'd want in there. I wouldn't want to re-use Best Laid Plans or Master of Deception from Zemo, since they both seem unnecessary or less interesting on someone who's more of an OM hub.

Originally Posted by johnny139

Love it. I don't actually know much at all about the original Thunderbolts team, but I'll give you what feedback I can...

CITIZEN V - I could go either way with the Crime Fighter Deception bit being dropped. The current design is simpler, but it makes him a lot more... niche. But niche isn't bad, necessarily, it just narrows his viability in most armies. And I agree it feels sort of weird overall.

SONGBIRD - I'd be hesitant about splitting her into two designs... I'm not sure if there's enough design space for multiple versions of this character. I think she's important as a bridge between the original run of Thunderbolts and the more modern incarnations. I feel like her design should reflect this.

ATLAS - Cool, love the Ionic Imbalance power and glad to see it reused. Could Giant Reach be reused here?

MACH-I - Also a solid design, nothing revolutionary but he's a pretty basic character, so...

TECHNO - I love modular powers, and his is beautifully simple. Lots of options. Good stuff here.

In general I love how you designed this faction - some trim-and-lean units that fill different gaps. I think you might have gone TOO lean, though, with Citizen V and Songbird. They feel a bit more generic than they should. I'm curious how you see the multiple team incarnations interacting, though, if at all.

I think I might actually move back toward a single Songbird, like I mentioned above talking to LO, since I came up with a tweaked way of doing it that I like a little better and doesn't rely on Zemo. (I was also thinking about a tweaked version of Sonic Flying that would let her carry units. Not sure about that, though)

Atlas could definitely use Gigantic Reach. Ionic Imbalance is pretty lengthy, but there should still be room for it.

On Citizen V, so far we seem to be 2/2 on people thinking he needs something extra, and I can't say I totally disagree. Here's something I was originally considering for Zemo as a different kind of leadership power, but didn't end up using:

MASTER PLAN UNVEILED
At the start of any round, before placing Order Markers, you may use Master Plan Unveiled. For the entire round, all Unique Heroes you control add 2 to their Attack and Defense numbers. For the rest of the game, all Unique Heroes you control have a Class of Menace instead of what is listed on their cards. Master Plan Unveiled may only be used once per game.

The rest-of-the-round and rest-of-the game effects together feel a little clunky to me (though some better language might alleviate that), but something in the spirit of launching a crazy endgame scheme might work well for a third power.

As far as different team incarnations working together, I think it should kinda be split into two camps. Charlatans for the original gang, compatible with Citizen V or potentially a T-Bolts Hawkeye (the two of whom would probably be just about impossible to play together). Then Osborn and Luke Cage would probably both be Criminal-recruiters, but again with different, mutually-exclusive styles. And Songbird would kind of slot into either build (not necessarily working with Osborn, since the two were always at odds).

I know you have Osborn drafted; assuming he still resembles the old version you have in this thread, I think he'd fit into that schema pretty well.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by laughing matter

I forgot to mention this earlier, but that version of WORLDBREAKER doesn't tell how he gets his rage markers, and doesn't offer any reason to remove them. Essentially it removes a very necessary chunk of text, and offers a healing ability with no penalty, which most healing powers have. Also it removes the requirement of hulk having to have a wound to heal, eliminating the blood theme. I would still be open to combining the two though.

Ah, sorry, I should have mentioned when I posted it; the whole point of that version of Worldbreaker was to get rid of the Rage Markers. It doesn't say what to do with them because I wrote them out entirely. Except in situations where you're healing figures adjacent to Hulk (a very niche use for an Event Hero Hulk!), the number of Rage Markers will match the number of Wound Markers on his card anyway. They seem kinda redundant as a reference.

You could always tweak it so that he can only heal adjacent figures when wounded if you want to hit our intended theme closer. As for the healing ability having no penalty, it does have a penalty if he heals himself, since he's deducting from his own Attack/Defense. As for healing others... you've got an Event Hero who can get himself up to 12Attack/12 Defense. Healing one wound once a round isn't going to drive his cost up too much.

[laughing matter]

True, also I just realized that another healer figure could remove wounds from him without removing rage markers, allowing him to collect them indefinitely. That's obviously not good! How about this

WORLDBREAKER
Add 2 to Hulk's Attack number, and 1 to Hulk's Defense number for each Wound Marker on this card. Before rolling for initiative, if Hulk has one or more Wound Markers on his card, you may remove 1 Wound Marker from this card, or the card of an adjacent figure.

This version gives him the huge attack boost but keeps him from being untouchable with a crazy defense. Also it might leave enough room for thunder clap.

[laughing matter]

With that change this would be the current version. Also which class do you thing works best? Honestly all of them work, but I feel like Warbound would be best, for potential Warbound synergy. Warrior is a close second, because I could see that being used for potential Warbound synergy as well. Gladiator could also be an option.

NAME = INCREDIBLE HULK
SECRET IDENTITY = BRUCE BANNER

SPECIES = MUTATE
UNIQUENESS = EVENT HERO
CLASS = WARRIOR/WARLORD/WARBOUND
PERSONALITY = FURIOUS

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 6

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 6

POINTS = ???

WORLDBREAKER
Add 2 to Hulk's Attack number, and 1 to Hulk's Defense number for each Wound Marker on this card. Before rolling for initiative, if Hulk has one or more Wound Markers on his card, you may remove 1 Wound Marker from this card, or the card of an adjacent figure.

THUNDERCLAP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range special. Attack 6.
Instead of moving normally, Hulk may use his Thunderous Clap Special Attack. All figures within 3 spaces of Hulk are affected by Thunderous Clap Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for each affected figure. Affected figures roll defense separately. After attacking, move each affected figure X spaces, where X is equal to the number of skulls rolled, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. Affected figures must be placed further away from Hulk than where they started.

SUPER LEAP
Instead of his normal move, Incredible Hulk may Super Leap. Super Leap has a move of 10. When counting spaces for Hulk's Super Leap movement, ignore elevations. Hulk may leap over water without stopping, leap over figures without becoming engaged, and leap over obstacles such as ruins. Hulk may not leap more than 50 levels up or down in a single leap. When moving with Super Leap, Hulk will take any leaving engagement attacks. Hulk rolls 3 fewer attack dice on any turn that he chooses to Super Leap.

SUPER STRENGTH

[japes]

Originally Posted by laughing matter

With that change this would be the current version. Also which class do you thing works best? Honestly all of them work, but I feel like Warbound would be best, for potential Warbound synergy. Warrior is a close second, because I could see that being used for potential Warbound synergy as well. Gladiator could also be an option.

I think you have something great going here but I do have a concern.

I'm still not 100% on board with the wording of Thunderclap. I see it as more of a directional thing and not 360 degrees around him. I usually see him clapping in front of himself and shooting a shockwave/airblast forward and clearing a path in front. 360 degrees is more like the stomp attack and I'd prefer to see it be more unique. Also it should be an "Instead of normal attack" or a losing his turn type of power not a power that allows a normal attack afterwards.

Here is another crack at it...


THUNDERCLAP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range special. Attack 6.
Choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Hulk. All figures on and adjacent to those 3 spaces are affected by this special attack. Hulk is not affected by this special attack. Roll 1 fewer attack die for each space Incredible Hulk moved this turn. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking, move each affected figure X spaces, where X is equal to the number of skulls rolled, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. Affected figures must be placed further away from Hulk than where they started.

[Yodaking]

I like it Japes.

[Karat]

A Special Attack is an instead of normal attack power. The clause I had simply did not allow him to be moved first. I do like how you altered it though. It needs to be "Attack 6+special" though, and Hulk was immune from his clap in my version, he is not in yours, so there will need to be a line making him immune.

[japes]

Originally Posted by japes

THUNDERCLAP SPECIAL ATTACK
Range special. Attack 6.
Choose 3 spaces in a straight line from Hulk. All figures on and adjacent to those 3 spaces are affected by this special attack. Hulk is not affected by this special attack. Roll 1 fewer attack die for each space Incredible Hulk moved this turn. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking, move each affected figure X spaces, where X is equal to the number of skulls rolled, up to a maximum of 4 spaces. Affected figures must be placed further away from Hulk than where they started.

Originally Posted by Karat

A Special Attack is an instead of normal attack power. The clause I had simply did not allow him to be moved first. I do like how you altered it though. It needs to be "Attack 6+special" though, and Hulk was immune from his clap in my version, he is not in yours, so there will need to be a line making him immune.

You know as well as I though that someone will read it and interpret it the other way so I was trying to head that part off...also the version I posted had Hulk immuned as well...see above.

You could be correct about the 6+special but I am used to 6+ being used when there are modifiers to the number rolled but +special seems reasonable since there is an attack of 6 plus a special circumstance.