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  #121  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:18 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

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Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
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Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
I'm not sure that I understand why these people are left out. Presumably, the insurance companies want to make money and offer plans that are profitable. If they didn't, another provider would step in and take that profit.
Do you provide insurance for yourself or do you get it from a group coverage plan from your employer?

I have done both and the expense difference and reduction in coverage is quite huge.
I belong to a group coverage plan from my employer. My understanding is that this is cheaper only because my employer contributes to the insurance. Will employers begin to cover their employees less than they did previously? Will this be one of the surprise outcomes of healthcare reform?
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  #122  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:23 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

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Originally Posted by Bill Newby View Post
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You do know that guy is paying less in taxes today than he did during the Reagan administration, Bush 1, and the Clinton administration don't you.
You do know that making statements in the "You do know ..." format makes you sound condescending, don't you?
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  #123  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:28 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

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Originally Posted by Nabsten View Post
I understand how it works.

My question is how can you make the argument that it won't cost me more?

Also, if I am forced to dump my entire saving into medical bills because I choose not to have insurance, that is a risk I should have a choice to take.

I agree with this, i don't drink, don't smoke, don't engaged in any extreme sports, Stay fit and eat healthy. as such i am at far less risk than most people. If I choose not to get health insurance because, similarly to a lottery i believe that my health costs will be lower than the amount i will be paying in an health insurance plan then that should be my choice. The car insurance argument doesn't hold up since you are required to have that to protect the other person in the accident (if its your fault) not so much for yourself. My own car insurance will do nothing for me, if i get in an accident but will cover the other persons costs.

so now i am forced to spend my money on insurance which other people will be using, and i am very unlikely to use because of my health. And how is this different than a normal insurance company? the only difference i see is that now i have to have their insurance and there is no competition.

my 2 cents.

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  #124  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:29 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
I'm not sure that I understand why these people are left out. Presumably, the insurance companies want to make money and offer plans that are profitable. If they didn't, another provider would step in and take that profit.
Do you provide insurance for yourself or do you get it from a group coverage plan from your employer?

I have done both and the expense difference and reduction in coverage is quite huge.
I belong to a group coverage plan from my employer. My understanding is that this is cheaper only because my employer contributes to the insurance. Will employers begin to cover their employees less than they did previously? Will this be one of the surprise outcomes of healthcare reform?
Besides the employer contribution, group insurance is cheaper because the cost of the group is shared among that group, and the employer can get a volume discount. If somebody in that group gets very ill, the expense is shared among that group in the form of increased premiums, but it is disbursed among the group with the larger groups feeling a smaller hit. With an individual, you have no employer match, no group discount, and any increase in coverage is based purely on your own health situation. You can also be dropped or denied coverage.

I have arthritis that is getting rapidly worse. I cannot go to the dr. about it because it will likely result in an increase in my already high insurance rates, or a drop of my coverage. If I lose insurance, I will not likely be able to find affordable coverage for my family. I have coverage, it is expensive as hell, but I cannot use it. I have it just in case of a catastrophic medical event, but I am going to check into Superfly's suggestion to see if I can get something that matches my needs better while I wait for the reforms to kick in.

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  #125  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:32 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

At this point I am most interested to see how the lawsuits being filed by several states' attorney generals will pan out.

"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce. If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?" --Virginia Attorney General Cuccinelli

This will undoubtedly end up in the Supreme Court before too long. The question is, which side has Justice Kennedy in their pocket?

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  #126  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:47 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

To those of you missing the point on the Car Insurance = Medical Insurance, here's the fact:

Car insurance covers both YOU and your CRASHEE. If you hit someone and have NO insurance, you get sued, go bankrupt. If you have LIABILITY ONLY, it STILL covers you because it pays the costs and protects you from suit, although your car is still a wreck. If you have FULL COVERAGE then everyone walks away, sorted out rightly. If you hit a power pole, the insurance covers the POWER COMPANY from having to raise rates to pay for power poles hit over the year, which helps us ALL. If you hit a guardrail and tear it up, insurance protects EVERYONE because that guard rail still needs to be fixed if you don't have insurance, and that money comes from the local municipality if you fail to pay.

Medical Insurance covers YOU by paying a portion of your medical bills and protects you from being sued by a provider. Medical insurance covers THE REST OF US so that the medical provider will get paid by the insurance company instead of the uninsured, where WE pay, via TAX DOLLARS for those costs. IT also protects THE SYSTEM because if enough people are indegent and default, providers either GO OUT OF BUSINESS due to not making money which deprives non-deadbeats of services, -OR- they are more selective in who they take on, which hurts deadbeats because they can no longer get service AND hurts us ALL because we end up paying via TAXES through Medicare/-aid or VCHIP.

This is the reason that Car Insurance = Med Insurance. Both protect ALL PARTIES involved. Make sense?

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  #127  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:51 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabsten View Post
At this point I am most interested to see how the lawsuits being filed by several states' attorney generals will pan out.

"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce. If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?" --Virginia Attorney General Cuccinelli

This will undoubtedly end up in the Supreme Court before too long. The question is, which side has Justice Kennedy in their pocket?
ROFL! Like states still have rights?

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  #128  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:52 PM
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Bannister Bannister is offline
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
I belong to a group coverage plan from my employer. My understanding is that this is cheaper only because my employer contributes to the insurance. Will employers begin to cover their employees less than they did previously? Will this be one of the surprise outcomes of healthcare reform?
You pay less because your employer probably pays 50 - 80% of the premiums.

You bet your bum employers are going to look at cutting health care costs if they can get away with it.

If I pay $900 per month per employee for family coverage and the government option for those whose companies don't offer health coverage would cost my employee $400 per month, I can cut my costs in half by no longer offering health care to employees and reimburse or simply increase my employees salary to cover his premiums.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Newby View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschild View Post
You do know that guy is paying less in taxes today than he did during the Reagan administration, Bush 1, and the Clinton administration don't you.
You do know that making statements in the "You do know ..." format makes you sound condescending, don't you?
It's like herpes, after a while you get used to it...
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...don't drink, don't smoke, don't engaged in any extreme sports...
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  #129  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:54 PM
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Nabsten Nabsten is offline
 
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by jschild View Post
Do you have a car? If you do, you're forced to buy insurance as well.

You want to know the reason why that is so?

Because when you get get in serious health trouble, someone pays that bill when you go to the emergency room and rack up 100,000 in bills and you go bankrupt (far easier to do than you think). Taxpayers pay for that. It's far cheaper to get everyone insurance and stop paying ER bills that people can't afford.
1. The jurisdiction to make someone buy car insurance rests with the state, not national, government.

2. I have a really nice bicycle!! (Which oddly enough helps keep me healthier. Thus, I have to worry about needing health insurance less, until now!)

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  #130  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 03:56 PM
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperflyTNT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabsten View Post
At this point I am most interested to see how the lawsuits being filed by several states' attorney generals will pan out.

"If a person decides not to buy health insurance, that person by definition is not engaging in commerce. If you are not engaging in commerce, how can the federal government regulate you?" --Virginia Attorney General Cuccinelli

This will undoubtedly end up in the Supreme Court before too long. The question is, which side has Justice Kennedy in their pocket?
ROFL! Like states still have rights?
Good Point!!

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  #131  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 04:01 PM
Rich10 Rich10 is offline
 
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grungebob View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
I'm not sure that I understand why these people are left out. Presumably, the insurance companies want to make money and offer plans that are profitable. If they didn't, another provider would step in and take that profit.
Do you provide insurance for yourself or do you get it from a group coverage plan from your employer?

I have done both and the expense difference and reduction in coverage is quite huge.
I belong to a group coverage plan from my employer. My understanding is that this is cheaper only because my employer contributes to the insurance. Will employers begin to cover their employees less than they did previously? Will this be one of the surprise outcomes of healthcare reform?
Besides the employer contribution, group insurance is cheaper because the cost of the group is shared among that group, and the employer can get a volume discount. If somebody in that group gets very ill, the expense is shared among that group in the form of increased premiums, but it is disbursed among the group with the larger groups feeling a smaller hit. With an individual, you have no employer match, no group discount, and any increase in coverage is based purely on your own health situation. You can also be dropped or denied coverage.

I have arthritis that is getting rapidly worse. I cannot go to the dr. about it because it will likely result in an increase in my already high insurance rates, or a drop of my coverage. If I lose insurance, I will not likely be able to find affordable coverage for my family. I have coverage, it is expensive as hell, but I cannot use it. I have it just in case of a catastrophic medical event, but I am going to check into Superfly's suggestion to see if I can get something that matches my needs better while I wait for the reforms to kick in.
And these seem like good reasons for a much simpler reform. It shouldn't be that difficult to put people who are not working for large companies into groups in which the expense is shared among members of that group. I'm not sure why the market hasn't come up with a solution that benefits individual policyholders and puts them into a larger group.

Despite recognizing that it will clearly increase rates, I am very sympathetic to those who have pre-existing conditions. Anyone can be put in a position where they would lose their insurance and their next insurance wouldn't accept the person and his family.

Lets not forget that all of this new coverage costs money. Although it may be tempting to say that you don't care because the wealthy will pay for it, why aren't individuals willing to pay for healthcare reform if it is so worthwhile? And don't be surprised if there are other effects such as companies needing to fire people because of increased healthcare costs.
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  #132  
Old March 22nd, 2010, 04:10 PM
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Sweetcurse Sweetcurse is offline
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Re: Healthcare reform passes...so should I just quit my job

Quote:
Originally Posted by JairEmia View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabsten View Post
I understand how it works.

My question is how can you make the argument that it won't cost me more?

Also, if I am forced to dump my entire saving into medical bills because I choose not to have insurance, that is a risk I should have a choice to take.

I agree with this, i don't drink, don't smoke, don't engaged in any extreme sports, Stay fit and eat healthy. as such i am at far less risk than most people. If I choose not to get health insurance because, similarly to a lottery i believe that my health costs will be lower than the amount i will be paying in an health insurance plan then that should be my choice. The car insurance argument doesn't hold up since you are required to have that to protect the other person in the accident (if its your fault) not so much for yourself. My own car insurance will do nothing for me, if i get in an accident but will cover the other persons costs.

so now i am forced to spend my money on insurance which other people will be using, and i am very unlikely to use because of my health. And how is this different than a normal insurance company? the only difference i see is that now i have to have their insurance and there is no competition.

my 2 cents.
Ahh, to be young and naive. You are not indestructible my friend and when something happens to you, who will pay the emergency room if you can't? The mandate DOES protect others because it keeps US from paying for YOUR irresponsibility. Many young people think like this and go without insurance while dumping the cost on the rest of us.

Obama FTW!

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