The Book of Vassago

[Tornado]

Yea

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I don't think the Hell Lord should have to move for the autowound chance to trigger. As long as the horse is stomping around it should work, right?

Wording could probably be cleaned up but mechanically I think we're good for testing. Yea

I feel like a horse without a rider is much less dangerous. Sure he’s a pretty cool horse but he’s still a horse and doesn’t do much on his own

[MrNobody]

I assumed he was somehow making fire or something like that. Also would not underestimate how strong a horse is. Maybe you could just ditch this line here?

HELL LORD STEED
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of an unengaged Small or Medium Hell Lord you control adjacent to Vassago, instead of moving that figure normally, you may move Vassago with his normal movement. After you move Vassago, place the figure on an empty space adjacent to Vassago. If Vassago and the chosen figure was moved at least one space each, one at a time roll the 20-sided die for each figure adjacent to Vassago that is not a Hell Lord. If you roll 10 or higher, that figure receives a wound.

Considering the Hell Lord has to be unengaged before moving, I think it'll work thematically 95% of the time.

The other option I see is to make it more inspired by the power on C3V's Arthur. For example;

HELLFIRE STEED
After revealing an Order Marker on the Army Card of an unengaged Small or Medium Hell Lord you control adjacent to Vassago, instead of moving that figure normally, you may move Vassago with his normal movement. During this move, whenever a figure rolls a leaving engagement attack against Vasaggo and does not roll a skull, that figure receives one wound. After you move Vassago, place your Hell Lord on an empty space adjacent to Vassago.

[Lazy Orang]

Historically, cavalry charges usually added momentum to the rider's weapons. This is why lances, such as those used by knights or, earlier, Alexander's Companion Cavalry, were favoured and so deadly, they were the perfect, driving weapons to deliver the full impact of a horse's charge to a speartip. Of course, the simple fact that you had a metric crapton of horse-muscle (and no, that's not suspect, or French...) barrelling towards you at breakneck speed was quite likely to kill you as well, and certainly helped a cavalry charge to shatter formations. (Particularly in later eras, pre the heavy use of gunpowder, or in earlier eras among the eastern Cataphracts, where in both cases the horse was likely heavily armoured.)
I could see either way here.

[Lord Pyre]

He always has a flame effect, but doesn’t really shoot fire. He’s basically just normal cavalry for Lady Death, which is why I liked the auto wound, it’s supposed to represent was LO is talking about! I like it hitting multiple people, which can represent fire or magic or whatever, plus barreling through squads. We can totally add the autowounds to be without Hell Lords. I just feel like he’d be less of a support unit, which he’s supposed to be.

He regularly gets captured if LD isn’t around, by the way. People like to threaten her by holding Vassago (and they always die brutally)

[johnny139]

My logic for not needing the Hell Lord to move is that there's going to be a lot of weird cases where you're already in the fray, using Vassago as a human shield (or equine shield), and moving him as little as possible just to deal some extra wounds to the people he's already engaged with. Like, you're not really riding him into battle or anything, you're already just sort of dancing him back and forth to trigger auto-wounds - it's just kind of a goofy image for Lady Death or whoever to be hopping on and off him as he prances over the same two spaces.

[quozl]

Yea

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by johnny139

My logic for not needing the Hell Lord to move is that there's going to be a lot of weird cases where you're already in the fray, using Vassago as a human shield (or equine shield), and moving him as little as possible just to deal some extra wounds to the people he's already engaged with. Like, you're not really riding him into battle or anything, you're already just sort of dancing him back and forth to trigger auto-wounds - it's just kind of a goofy image for Lady Death or whoever to be hopping on and off him as he prances over the same two spaces.

Hmm, good point. How about I see how it feels during the initial and adjust it from there? If it does feel goofy I'll remove that line. Sound good?

I also believe this passes! Ultron is still much higher priority for me right now, so I'll hit Vassago sometime after that.

[johnny139]

Yeah it's definitely not a dealbreaker for me either way - I did Yea it regardless - I just think I'd streamline it a bit and that seems like an obvious cut. Up to you and the other testers once he's on the board!

[Lord Pyre]

So current small and medium Hell Lords are Daimon Hellstrom, Mephisto, Hela, Pluto, and Lady Death, correct? (Pluto isn't in the synergy archive, by the way).

Anything that would be good to see in these tests? I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to these figures, and spells, so any help would be appreciated. I'm going to start by running just Vassago with Lady Death to see how they feel together, against other small armies and maybe some squads. But for army ideas after that I'm not sure the best way to put these guys together.

[Lord Pyre]

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

1. Does the design disrupt opponent's Order Markers in a way that offers a net gain in turns taken with strong figures versus the turns your opponent can take with strong figures (Ozymandias, Joker (I), Meteorite)?

No.

1. Does the design offer auto-wounding that either doesn't require taking turns or is otherwise extremely efficient (War Machine, Jason Voorhees, Cosmic Cube)?

Yes, sort of. It's no the most efficient, but it's in addition to a powerful Hell Lord turn.

1. Does the design immobilize figures or prevent turn-taking (Blob, Spider-Girl, Diablo, Green Lantern Alan)?

No.

1. Does the design move opponent's figures in a way that's easy to pull off and can move figures multiple spaces in multiple directions (Graviton, Magneto, Vulture)?

No.

1. Does the design allow for moving friendly figures without taking turns, or for moving 2+ friendly figures while still taking a turn (Martian Manhunter [I], Green Lantern John, Angel)?

Yes. He enhances Hell Lord movement, like a reverse Carry. Vassago doesn't need an Order Marker.

1. Does the figure allow for two figures, one of them being a wide range of possible figures, to both attack on a single Order Marker (Zombie, Robot, Iron Patriot, Ms. Marvel, Rocket [II], Martian Manhunter [II], Nebula, Baby Groot, Havok)?

No.

1. Does the design offer any sort of passive boost outside of a narrow set of figures (Star-Lord, Sage, Brainiac 5, Captain America, Batman [III])?

No.

1. Does the design help keep your allies alive just by being nearby (Daring Decoy, Aaron Cash, Jocasta, Weather Wizard)?

No.

1. Is it OK for the design to have defensive abilities that could make it essentially unkillable in some matchups or endgame situations (Cosmic Cube, Healing Factor, Master Martial Artist)?

No.

1. If the figure has auto-destroy powers or powers that can force the opponent's figures to attack each other, are they balanced for strong opposing figures and/or boosts that can make the powers more reliable (Puppet Master, Psycho-Man, Enchantress)?

No.

1. Is the figure likely to earn its value many times over by either running out alone at the start of a battle (pre-eval Crow, Solomon Grundy) or by sitting in the startzone until the end of a battle (Arnim Zola, Silk Spectre)?

No.

1. Will synergies in the design create concerns for future designs (Mad Thinker, pre-eval Enchantress, Star-Lord)?

No, unless new Hell Lord would break him. But I doubt it.

1. Does the design combo particularly well with one of the design concerns above (Magma)?

No.

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.


Yes.

Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.



Yes.


Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.


Yes.

Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.


Yes.


Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.


Yes.


New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.


Yes.


New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.


Pretty Sure.


Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.


Protection is reused, just with a different specified class.


Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.


Yes. He's a horse.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

So current small and medium Hell Lords are Daimon Hellstrom, Mephisto, Hela, Pluto, and Lady Death, correct? (Pluto isn't in the synergy archive, by the way).

Anything that would be good to see in these tests? I'm a bit of a novice when it comes to these figures, and spells, so any help would be appreciated. I'm going to start by running just Vassago with Lady Death to see how they feel together, against other small armies and maybe some squads. But for army ideas after that I'm not sure the best way to put these guys together.

I ran an army like this for Mordo:

Baron Mordo, Daimon Hellstrom, Zombie, Wong, Hellfire: Fireball x6, Hellfire: Ignition x2 (750)

Mixing Vassago into something like that might be a good idea? Probably more of a thought for public testing than an initial, though. In general I don't think anything leaps out at me about Vassago that makes him a better pick for some Hell Lords than others.

Might be a little easier to try to exploit the auto-wounding with a ranged Hell Lord that you can keep out of engagement more easily, but I think they're pretty much all ranged, off the top of my head.

I think small games with Vassago + Hell Lord + maybe one or two other supporting pieces is a reasonable direction for the initial.