The Book of Deathreavers

[Confred]

Originally Posted by Mr Migraine

WHOA.

What is the precedent for rolling a d20 to reconcile things like that in Heroscape?

Edit: Also, "Double Attack" is a power that allows Syvarris to take his normal attack twice. It's not a special attack.

Yes 20-sided dice resolve timing. In HS there isn't a queue or FIFO system or priority yield. Roll for each, unless the power says immediately. If two say immediately, roll for them.
Im at work, but I'll screen cap for you later.

While I know Double Attack isn't a special attack, I'm wondering if it's considered more like a leaving engagement attack than a normal, since it isn't done normally - instead through power

[obfuscatedhippo]

Originally Posted by Confred

Well it doesn't say immediately. With two things occurring at once, roll the 20-sided die to determine order.

Would Syvarris's second attack trigger scatter since it is a "double attack" and not a "normal attack"?

Double Attack is a special power that allows 2 normal attacks.

The rats power triggers when rolling defense - and you are still rolling defense each time you are attacked and that defense roll is resolved before the second attack is rolled.

There are many steps that happen between the first attack and second attack so 'immediately' does not have to be stated. For example, Syvarris needs to choose a target for his second attack, make sure that hit zones are visible, etc. While he is doing that - the rats are scattering.

[Grimnak]

@obfuscatedhippo is correct. To be honest, I've never heard of of d20 resolving for timing in a game of HS. In every game I've played the cards have been clear enough to know in which order everything happens.

[lefton4ya]

Very rarely is D20 used for timing, but I have seen it for things like one figure on lava and anther on wound glyph and see which triggers first, but this is off topic to Deathreavers, as it is clearly a second attack.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by obfuscatedhippo

Double Attack is a special power that allows 2 normal attacks.

The rats power triggers when rolling defense - and you are still rolling defense each time you are attacked and that defense roll is resolved before the second attack is rolled.

There are many steps that happen between the first attack and second attack so 'immediately' does not have to be stated. For example, Syvarris needs to choose a target for his second attack, make sure that hit zones are visible, etc. While he is doing that - the rats are scattering.

It happens after rolling defense, not when, but I agree with your end conclusion. Each are in different time "phases" and Scatter comes first.
For example "after moving" =/= "before attacking"

Before attacking
Rolling attack dice
After rolling attack dice and before rolling defense dice
Rolling defense dice
After rolling defense dice
After attacking
Before attacking
...

[rednax]

D20s are also used to resolve timing if both players draft the Airborne Elite. You roll the D20 to see who rolls for The Drop first.

[Confred]

Originally Posted by rednax

D20s are also used to resolve timing if both players draft the Airborne Elite. You roll the D20 to see who rolls for The Drop first.

Sounds like there's a need for a new definitive list thread :P

[Sir Dendrik]

Request: An idiot's guide to using rats. I rarely play with them and I was wondering if someone would give me the skinny on how to play these guys.

[superfrog]

Tie up the range. Get as many rats to the middle of the board as you can. Scatter towards glyphs and ranged figures. When melee squads engage your rats, scatter away after the first attack so your opponent doesn't get any more attacks.

[dok]

Do you still get to scatter if either Paralyzing Stare (MBS) or Whip (James Murphy) or Maul (Deahtstalkers) or Venemous Sting (Wyvern) prevents you from rolling defense dice?

Argument in favor: "After rolling defense dice" is not an actual requirement; it's just telling you the sequence for when you use the power. This is analogous to being able to use an "after moving and before attacking" power even if you don't move or don't attack. (Or even if you can't move, due to cyberclaw.)

Argument against: We have a ruling that Tough doesn't trigger when Paralyzed. Granted, that's a "when rolling", not "after rolling", but it's at least a related ruling. And the literal reading says you never met the trigger. Plus y'all hate rats and anything to make them a tiny bit worse is good, amirite?

I'm not sure which column this falls under, but there's also the discussion that makes it clear that you don't actually scatter right after rolling defense dice, but instead wait until after taking wounds and removing the rat. That just means that we don't exactly do what the card says, I guess?

Surprisingly (to me), I couldn't find any other rulings that are relevant either in the rules forum or the relevant books.

[OEAO]

Originally Posted by dok

Do you still get to scatter if either Paralyzing Stare (MBS) or Whip (James Murphy) or Maul (Deahtstalkers) or Venemous Sting (Wyvern) prevents you from rolling defense dice?

Argument in favor: "After rolling defense dice" is not an actual requirement; it's just telling you the sequence for when you use the power. This is analogous to being able to use an "after moving and before attacking" power even if you don't move or don't attack. (Or even if you can't move, due to cyberclaw.)

Argument against: We have a ruling that Tough doesn't trigger when Paralyzed. Granted, that's a "when rolling", not "after rolling", but it's at least a related ruling. And the literal reading says you never met the trigger. Plus y'all hate rats and anything to make them a tiny bit worse is good, amirite?

I'm not sure which column this falls under, but there's also the discussion that makes it clear that you don't actually scatter right after rolling defense dice, but instead wait until after taking wounds and removing the rat. That just means that we don't exactly do what the card says, I guess?

Surprisingly (to me), I couldn't find any other rulings that are relevant either in the rules forum or the relevant books.

FWIW, I talked to Ken, and we’re both in agreement that it won’t trigger if you don’t roll. I see what you’re saying about it being a timing window, but as you mentioned, that timing window isn’t even accurate.

[Cleon]

Originally Posted by dok

Do you still get to scatter if either Paralyzing Stare (MBS) or Whip (James Murphy) or Maul (Deahtstalkers) or Venemous Sting (Wyvern) prevents you from rolling defense dice?

Argument in favor: "After rolling defense dice" is not an actual requirement; it's just telling you the sequence for when you use the power. This is analogous to being able to use an "after moving and before attacking" power even if you don't move or don't attack. (Or even if you can't move, due to cyberclaw.)

Argument against: We have a ruling that Tough doesn't trigger when Paralyzed. Granted, that's a "when rolling", not "after rolling", but it's at least a related ruling. And the literal reading says you never met the trigger. Plus y'all hate rats and anything to make them a tiny bit worse is good, amirite?

I'm not sure which column this falls under, but there's also the discussion that makes it clear that you don't actually scatter right after rolling defense dice, but instead wait until after taking wounds and removing the rat. That just means that we don't exactly do what the card says, I guess?

Surprisingly (to me), I couldn't find any other rulings that are relevant either in the rules forum or the relevant books.

Well since there is no known game of Maul activating, I wouldn’t worry about that one. Not sure about the others.