The Book of Swamp Thing (II)

[MrNobody]

Heh thanks, I think this technically passed on time about an hour ago.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by tcglkn

Yea when the SP is updated with your suggested tweaks.

I was waiting for this to be resolved, but I figured if you were already testing it must've been.

[Ronin]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

JUNGLE PLANT
Whenever a special power on an Army Card refers to a Jungle Piece, it refers to Jungle Plant as well.

Should we try to have a naming convention that doesn't require this? Like we use "Evergreen Tree" to generically refer to either kind of Evergreen Tree and "Rock Outcrop" to refer to either size of Rock Outcrop.

If we want to tidy that up, it makes sense to do it as part of the ongoing updates, but like... ideally whatever our system is, I think it shouldn't involve the keyword-y stuff.

(I know you lifted this off the Animated Vines, I just think we should avoid it here if possible since these ARE the Jungle Pieces powers are calling out)

EDIT: Would it be crazy to give non-Vehicle DOs a keyword to call out the material? Just something like Plant/Rock/Ice/whatever. It'd streamline our call-outs a lot and make it easier to design new DOs that just act sensibly in the game. And they've got a bunch of free real estate in the leftbox.

Probably a point for another thread, just occurred to me last night when I saw the power there.

[IAmBatman]

I like where your head is at and I support this effort. I think now is the window to strike for such changes, during the Great Class Overhaul.

[MrNobody]

I could see giving them a species essentially.

[Lord Pyre]

Yes please. We could clarify obstacles/do's and just make a master list somewhere.

[tcglkn]

I’m highly against that. Any DO with an occupancy doesn’t have room for that on its card. So then we’ll just have an arbitrary list of random DOs that do and don’t have a “type”.

[quozl]

Why not just call it Jungle Piece?

[MrNobody]

Idea - we already have all the vehicles saying Unique Vehicle or Event Vehicle, what if we just expanded that? Like this could be a Unique Plant, Glaciers could be Unique Ice, Green Power Battery could be an Event Structure, and so on. May feel a little customy, but it’s making use of a space that’s otherwise wasted (since all DOs say DO at the top anyways.)

[MrNobody]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Swamp Thing

Army Test 1
Map: City Park
Units: Team 1 (1,125): Swamp Thing (325), Zatanna III (250), Green Arrow II (210), Martian Manhunter III (340)
Team 2 (1,125): F4 (1,000), Bag-Man (125)

Pre-game thoughts: Zatanna’s magic number is 13. Lots of D20 rolls for it too.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T1 wins initiative
-Johnny burns down a Plant
-Sue destroys a Plant
-GA does a Soundwarp Special and attacks Swamp Thing, inflicting a wound
-GA inflicts a wound on Reed
-Johnny inflicts 3 wounds on GA

Round 2: T1 wins initiative
-Reed destroys a Plant
-MM inflicts 3 wounds on Sue
-Ben inflicts 4 wounds on MM
-Zatanna inflicts a wound on Reed
-Reed inflicts a wound on MM
-MM inflicts 2 wounds on Reed
-Zatanna takes out Reed

Round 3: T2 wins initiative
-Zatanna inflicts a wound on Ben
-MM inflicts a wound on Sue
-MM takes out Sue
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on Johnny

Round 4: T2 wins initiative
-Zatanna inflicts a wound on Ben
-Johnny inflicts 3 wounds on Zatanna
-Johnny inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Ben inflicts 2 wounds on MM
-Ben takes out MM
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on Ben

Round 5: T2 wins initiative
-Johnny goes Supernova, taking out Zatanna
-Swamp Thing takes a LEA from Ben
-Swamp Thing takes out Johnny
-Ben inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing

Round 6: T2 wins initiative
-Peter takes out a Plant
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Ben
-Ben inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing takes out Ben
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Peter

Round 7: T1 wins initiative
-Peter inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Peter

Round 8: T1 wins initiative
-Peter inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing takes out Peter


Special power usages:
Normal attack: 14 wounds inflicted (5 on Human Torch, 5 on Thing, 4 on Bag-Man)
Grasping Vines: 3 movements stopped
Vegetative Muck: 5 wounds healed

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Swamp Thing (6/8 wounds) Green Arrow (3/4 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: A close enough game, but the design isn’t feeling quite right.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 2
Map: Conflict Chernobyl (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Swamp Thing (335), Poison Ivy II (175), Floronic Man (135), Animated Vines (55), Harley Quinn II (180), Bud and Lou (70), Wasp (50)
Team 2 (1,000): Captain America (240), Black Widow II (230), Ninjak (230), Poison (300)

NOTE: Updated with changes to powers.

Pre-game thoughts: Swamp Thing combos really nicely with both Poison Ivies, but I like the potential of the huge move boost this combo can provide by making Mother Nature easier to use.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T1 wins initiative
-Ninjak takes out 2 Plants

Round 2: T1 wins initiative
-Harley inflicts 2 wounds on Poison
-Harley removes OM3 from Poison
-Poison takes out Bud and Lou
-Harley inflicts a wound on Poison
-Poison inflicts a wound on Harley
-Ninjak inflicts a wound on Harley
-Ninjak inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing recreates a Plant
-Swamp Thing inflicts 3 wounds on Poison

Round 3: T2 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing recreates a Plant
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Poison
-Poison takes out Harley
-Floronic Man takes out Poison with Plant Animation
-Widow takes out a Tree and a Plant
-Cap inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Floronic Man inflicts a wound on Ninjak with Plant Animation

Round 4: T2 wins initiative
-Floronic Man inflicts a wound on Widow with Plant Animation
-Ninjak takes out the Animated Vines
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Cap

Round 5: T2 wins initiative
-Cap inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Floronic Man inflicts 1 wound each on Cap, Widow, and Ninjak
-Ninjak takes out Floronic Man with 2 attacks

Round 6: T1 wins initiative
-Cap inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Ninjak inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Cap
-Ninjak inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing

Round 7: T2 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing takes out Cap
-Ninjak takes out Wasp
-T1 had OM2 on Wasp, so they lose a turn
-Widow inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Ninjak takes out Swamp Thing
-Ivy inflicts a wound on Widow with Plant Animation

Round 8: T1 wins initiative
-Ninjak takes out a Vine
-Ninjak inflicts a wound on Ivy
-Ninjak inflicts 3 wounds on Ivy

Round 9: T2 wins initiative
-Ninjak takes out Ivy


Special power usages:
Normal attack: 8 wounds inflicted (4 on Poison, 4 on Captain America)
Grasping Vines: 0 movements stopped
Avatar of the Green: 0 Plants destroyed, 2 Plants recreated
Vegetative Muck: 5 wounds healed

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Black Widow (3/5 wounds), Ninjak (2/5 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: This was enjoyable! I feel like the Green faction is starting to have a distinct mechanical identity - it’s fun to set up a “jungle” of different plants that your enemy has to hack their way through to get to your guys.

Grasping Vines didn’t do anything here, after the previous version was so pivotal last game. Part of that is down to bad rolls, but it feels like it should have had more of an impact here. Keeping an eye on that and the tankiness of his stats as I move into the final game here.

Ninjak was a real MVP here, dishing out a good amount of damage while T1 struggled to put down Cap. He’s a fun design, and it’s got my brain thinking about where a Tactical Pressure reuse might be cool.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 3
Map: Fire Isles (No Glyphs)
Units: Team 1 (1,000): Swamp Thing (340), Frankenstein (320), Lizard (200), Blanka (140)
Team 2 (1,000): Spider-Man (250), Thing (II) (340), Luke Cage (190), Jessica Jones (220)

Pre-game thoughts: Chose a map with no trees on it for this one.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T1 wins initiative
-Spidey inflicts 2 wounds on Lizard
-Jessica inflicts a wound on Frank
-Ben takes out a Plant
-Lava Field inflicts a wound on Jessica

Round 2: T2 wins initiative
-Luke inflicts a wound on Lizard
-Frank inflicts 2 wounds on Jessica
-Spidey inflicts a wound on Frank
-Frank inflicts 2 wounds on Spidey
-Swamp Thing recreates a Plant
-Swamp Thing takes out Jessica
-Thing inflicts a wound on Frank
-Lava Field inflicts 1 wound each on Spidey, Thing, and Swamp Thing

Round 3: T1 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on Thing
-Spidey inflicts a wound on Lizard
-Luke inflicts a wound on Lizard
-Thing inflicts 2 wounds on Frank
-Luke inflicts 2 wounds on Lizard
-Frank inflicts a wound on Thing
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Thing
-Thing inflicts a wound on Frank
-Lava Field inflicts 1 wound each on Spidey and Swamp Thing

Round 4: T1 wins initiative
-Luke takes out Lizard
-Swamp Thing destroys a Plant
-Spidey takes out Frank
-Luke inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Lava Field takes out Spidey

Round 5: T1 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing would destroy Thing, but Thing has One More Hand
-Swamp Thing takes out Thing
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Luke

Round 6: T2 wins initiative
-Luke inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Luke
-Luke inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Luke inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Luke

Round 7: T2 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing inflicts a wound on Luke Cage
-Luke inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing takes out Luke


Special power usages:
Normal attack: 12 wounds inflicted (2 on Jessica Jones, 4 on Thing, 5 on Luke Cage, 1 ignored by Thing)
Grasping Vines: 1 movements stopped
Avatar of the Green: 1 Plants destroyed, 1 Plants recreated
Vegetative Muck: 4 wounds healed

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Swamp Thing (4/8 wounds), Blanka (0/5 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: The melee match-up and lack of plantlife on the map here hurt Swamp Thing, but he still was able to play off being a big bruiser (probably more than he should be able to.)

___________________________________________________________

Army Test 4
Map: Modified Can’t See The Jungle
Units: Team 1 (1,075): Swamp Thing (335), Zatanna II (220), Shade the Changing Man (185), Liu Kang (260), Tarot: The Magician (60), Mystic Flames x3 (15)
Team 2 (1,075): Mister Fantastic (235), Invisible Woman (215), Silver Surfer (400), Human Torch (225)

NOTES: Updated with -1 Life, -1 Attack, and Grasping Vines 12
4 Porta-Potties randomly placed on the map

Pre-game thoughts: Just a final game to try to tweak him exactly where I want him.

Summary of the game:

Spoiler Alert!

Round 1: T2 wins initiative
-Johnny destroys a Plant
-Swamp Thing stops Silver Surfer (SS) from moving
-SS destroys a Plant
-SS destroys a Porta-Potty
-SS inflicts 2 wounds on Liu Kang
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on SS

Round 2: T2 wins initiative
-Zatanna casts the Magician
-SS inflicts 2 wounds on Liu Kang
-Zatanna inflicts a wound on SS
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on SS
-SS takes out Liu Kang
-Swamp Thing recreates a Plant
-Swamp Thing takes out SS

Round 3: T1 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing recreates a Plant
-Johnny inflicts 2 wounds each on Swamp Thing and Shade
-Sue inflicts a wound on Shade
-Shade moves a wound from himself to Johnny
-Johnny inflicts a wound on Shade

Round 4: T1 wins initiative
-Shade moves a wound from himself to Johnny
-Johnny inflicts 2 wounds on Shade
-Reed takes out Shade
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on Sue
-Swamp Thing destroys a Plant
-Sue inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Reed inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing

Round 5: T2 wins initiative
-Zatanna takes a LEA from Johnny
-Zatanna inflicts a wound on Sue
-Sue inflicts a wound on Zatanna
-Johnny inflicts a wound on Zatanna
-Reed takes out Zatanna
-T1 had OM3 on Zatanna so they lose a turn

Round 6: T1 wins initiative
-Swamp Thing takes out Sue
-Johnny takes a LEA from Swamp Thing
-Johnny inflicts 2 wounds on Swamp Thing
-Swamp Thing recreates a Plant
-Swamp Thing inflicts 2 wounds on Johnny

Round 7: T2 wins initiative
-Johnny inflicts a wound on Swamp Thing
-Reed takes out Swamp Thing


Special power usages:
Normal attack: 11 wounds inflicted (5 on Silver Surfer, 4 on Invisible Woman, 2 on Human Torch)
Grasping Vines: 3 movements stopped
Avatar of the Green: 1 Plants destroyed, 3 Plants recreated
Vegetative Muck: 3 wounds healed

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Mister Fantastic (0/5 wounds), Human Torch (3/5 wounds)

Post-game thoughts: Team 1 just really struggled with turn efficiency, which is kind of a recurring problem with these JLD builds. Swamp Thing felt just about perfect though. A tough bruiser, but not too tough, and the plants felt disruptive enough without being annoying.

Portable Toilets didn’t get much use here. Norrin destroyed one early to get a Cosmic Speed boost, but otherwise they went ignored.

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: I think he’s feeling really good with all the little tweaks. Going forward, I just want to see how others react to him. Definitely want a few tests with Poison Ivy II as well, just to see if the double tie-down effect creates a negative play experience.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT: Really digging how he’s playing now! He has lots of cool combos with thematic allies, and now feels like a brute without being an overpowering pain to take down.

Really happy with where he landed.

[MrNobody]

I do think I want to make one additional change before sending him out to public, making it so he can move Plants on the battlefield instead of destroying them. I think that'll encourage use of that option more, and it solves the slightly odd thematic issue of a power called Avatar of the Green destroying plant life.

That plus all the mid-initial changes would look like this;

NAME = SWAMP THING
SECRET IDENTITY = ALEC HOLLAND

SPECIES = PLANT ELEMENTAL
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = CREATURE
PERSONALITY = DETERMINED

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 7

MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 5

POINTS = 335

GRASPING VINES 12
At the start of the game, you may place up to 3 Jungle Plant Destructible Objects on empty spaces on the battlefield as long as they fit normally. Whenever a player would begin the movement of a figure adjacent to Swamp Thing, an Evergreen Tree, or a Jungle Piece, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll 12 or higher, that figure may not be moved.

AVATAR OF THE GREEN
All land spaces within 4 spaces of Swamp Thing are considered grass spaces in addition to their normal terrain type. Before taking a turn with Swamp Thing, you may roll 3 combat dice. For each blank rolled, you may choose a Jungle Plant Destructible Object that is either on the battlefield or destroyed. Place it on any empty grass space where it would fit normally.

VEGETATIVE MUCK
When Swamp Thing defends against an attack, the most wounds he can take from this attack is two. At the end of the round, if Swamp Thing is adjacent to an Evergreen Tree or a Jungle Piece, or on a grass, swamp, or swamp water space, remove a Wound Marker from this card.

SUPER STRENGTH

[quozl]

Is there anything gained from making the Jungle Plants destructible?