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Old January 13th, 2014, 09:48 AM
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Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

As a player keeping up with both Super Scape and Classic/VC Custom Scape, I've been moving towards combining the two. In fact, I'd suggest that the failure of Official Marvelscape was precisely because it was originally declared as a Separate Universe, probably for Corporate Licensing purposes. Now this was a decision I always disagreed with from the get go, and these days we Fan Scapers could care less. (Who says, for example, that you can't combine Marvel with DC with Independents if you want to)? In fact, I once suggested that this entire site section be renamed, as I've just used 'Marvelscape' here in a sentence more often than I have in the last several years...if discontinuation of the official game be treason, let's make the most of it!

In my local group, The New York City Gang of Four, we've been moving toward combining the two in limited ways--see Kolakoski's Blog for our most recent scenario designed by Sherman Davies. Both SD and Taeblewalker were instrumental in getting me into Super Scaping, back in the dark days when I was ready to chuck out my collection of Heroclix Supers figures altogether in disgust!

I've posted many threads onsite discussing various ways of structuring Supers games to allow for this, including "Pulp Adventure" games where the Army Card maximum is 200 points, and support squads and characters can really shine. Its only natural for me to eventually to see both Supers and Classic/Customs as just more fantasy Army Cards to throw into the mix.

I've just posted THE INFINITY GAUNTLET in the Maps and Scenarios section. It represents my most current thinking about this topic--which certainly isn't original with me--in being my first UNRESTRICTED scenario to allow Supers from a number of sources as well as Classic/Customs. In this case, the very limited limitations are only to address concerns that unbalanced cards be inadvertently cleared for use.

The army build in this new IG scenario and those of others I've played is structured to balance out the use of different types and point values of characters, whether Super or Unsuper, including Super Support Characters from sidekicks to S.W.A.T. Teams to J. Jonah Jameson, (technically part of the Super category). In my own Supers Custom thread I've created the beloved characters I wanted to do myself, although mostly because at the time no one else had done them. But I also have, like many others, a regular Classic Customs thread as well to do the same for the other side of Scape.

I'd be interested to hear how other people are combining the two types of Scape, and any positive comments about breaking this "final boundary" in Scaping. To me, its just a way to extend our story telling/gaming capabilities. Of course, you can just go for mixing it all up and Let Loose The Dogs of Scape. But I prefer a more structured scenario approach, as noted in many threads I've started or posted in onsite.

Do you do it too? And how do you do it, if you do? How has it worked for you, or not? Inquiring minds want to know...

Last edited by chas; January 13th, 2014 at 01:15 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 09:54 AM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

I'll never mix, but that's only because I'm not a fan of supers, they do nothing for me. Simply a genre in which I am not interested (to play with or against).

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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:19 AM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

"What are your favorite historical periods to game in?"
"Well, it depends on who your mates are, doesn't it?"
--Donald Featherstone, The Father of Wargaming, To Chas


NYYS: So said Kolakosi once, but we've managed to turn him to the Light Side to some degree. Or he's been willing to indulge in our madness, if you want to look at it that way. Its all part of our fairly free wheeling style of letting the monthly Game Master do what he wants to do on the table. And I think that's what's kept us together all these years.

Hey, if you threw the New York Yankees out of baseball, what would you do for an avatar?

Last edited by chas; January 13th, 2014 at 10:28 AM.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 10:33 AM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

I wouldn't volunteer to play in a game that mixed, but if I played with a group that allowed for each a turn to choose, I wouldn't not participate since that wouldn't be fair at all for me to expect the opposite when it was my turn to choose.

I'd play it out, have as much fun as I could haning out with the gang, and look forward to the next meeting in order to hopefully play something more in my wheelhouse. I've given supers the 'ole college try' to no avail (and it's not just Scape, it's any game that involves the genre). Nothing about the universe excites me, which I realize puts me in the minority. It is what it is...

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Old January 13th, 2014, 12:11 PM
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Garada Garada is offline
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

The Marvel Master Set is what got me into HeroScape in the first place, and as there were only 10 figures, the first thing I did was run out and grab all of the other Scape product I could find - so I've been mixing Classic with Supers since the get-go and continue to do so to this day.

I have a large [almost complete] collection of Classic Scape with multiples of most of the important / cool squads, plus a MASSIVE collection of Supers.

I host a HeroScape Tournament every December [details in my sig], and some sample teams include Superman & The 4th Mass, Doctor Doom with Doombots & Deathreavers and Thor & The Vikings [the 3 Viking Heroes plus the Tarn Warriors]. My wife actually won our after-tournament, free-for-all, 400-point, 8-Player Battle Royale using Bulleteer [my custom] and Sonlen. I used another of my own customs, Death's Head, with Agent Carr, while another player used The Incredible Hulk and Isamu.

We also occasionally play an RPG that uses HeroScape rules as the combat system, set in the modern-day DC Universe. The group [all members of the San Diego branch of Justice League] recently traveled back in time to WWII where they joined up with a group of Allied Soldiers [a few squads of Airborne Elite] before Captain America & The Invaders showed up to lend a hand against a battalion of HYDRA troops. Later, they teamed up with members of the Justice Society to face a massive horde of undead warriors [Zombies of Morindan] raised by the evil sorcerer Felix Faust. As time continued to twist, the heroes found themselves in the 'Weird West' where they met a diverse group of gunslingers and bounty hunters including Jonah Hex, James Murphy, Deadeye Dan, Guilty McCreech and Johnny 'Shotgun Sullivan'; at one point, they are ambushed by Indians [Brave Arrow & the Mohican River Tribe] before putting aside their differences to join forces and help a group of Roman Legionnaires [and Archers] that were battling a pair of hungry T-Rexes. Of course, our heroes eventually discover that Chronos the Time Thief is behind all of the trouble and as the time-stream continued to unravel they follow him to a war-torn future where the Cold War never ended, a future filled with MicroCorp agents, DeathWalkers and all manner of other deadly encounters... but that's a story for another time!

So yes... I would say that mixing is OK at my house!

EDIT 1: Ooh, I just thought of another fun example of mixing that took place in one of our games, also in the DCU RPG - a one-off adventure that was basically an adaptation of the Justice League Unlimited episode Chaos at the Earth's Core, where our heroes travel through a mysterious portal and find themselves in the world-within-our-world, Skartaris. They encounter The Warlord and join his fight against the overwhelming army of Orc Raiders that is threatening his people. I used all of the Classic Scape Gruts / Orcs I had in my collection, including Grimnak, Tornak - the whole gang really - to create an epic Lord of the Rings style battle. Good times! I really can't imagine Scape being as appealing as it is to me personally WITHOUT mixing Classic and Supers.

EDIT 2:
Quote:
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chas again.
Sorry, I tried. This is a great thread, can't wait to see some more responses!

Last edited by Garada; January 13th, 2014 at 12:30 PM.
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  #6  
Old January 13th, 2014, 01:11 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Garada,

Yes, I've actually got that Bulleteer card, and learned all about her on Wikipedia after printing it out, so thanks!

Those are some great stories. I always say that the more I like someone I meet in person (or in this case online), the farther away they live from me--so of course I'm in NYC and you're in San Diego! Sheesh!!! Although I hear that S.D. is quite nice, and I've never been to Southern California...
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Old January 13th, 2014, 02:10 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Chas, I definitely feel your pain. I've made some good pals on these boards and would love to play a game of Scape against any one of them, but unfortunately I have yet to meet a fellow Heroscapers.com member in person. If you ever find yourself in San Diego you are always welcome at my table. Heck, December 2014 will be the FIFTH ANNIVERSARY of my annual Hex Addicts tournament - if you find yourself needing to escape the oppressive winter cold in NYC and are tempted by the prospect of a 70 degree pre-holiday getaway, there is a spot for you in the Tournament!

I'm glad someone else is using Bulleteer - she was one of my first customs and has seen a TON of use. She's a favorite of both my wife AND my daughter, and although I feel like her points, stats and the mechanics of her abilities are pretty much perfect, I think she's in need of a little tune-up. For example, when I created her I thought it would be clever to call her abilities 'Smartskin' and 'Gravity Helmet', but they're really just the Classic Scape abilities Tough and Flying respectively, with no changes whatsoever. I think I either need to change the wording to the [admittedly more boring sounding] Tough and Flying, or tweak the powers a little to justify the more thematic names. I also don't think that Valiant is the right Personality for her - at the time I created her, all I was really thinking was that I'd like to team her up with Captain America and get that Valiant Army bonus! Pretty short-sighted now that I look back on it. Anyway, sorry to get off-topic, that's really a discussion for my own custom thread!

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I spotted this fitting quote attributed to Board Game Reviewing legend Tom Vasel [host of The Dice Tower] in the signature of Heroscaper Xotli:

Quote:
I've seen some people on the Internet seem to have a problem with mixing this with the rest of the game, which makes no sense to me, because, I mean, you already are having knights fight robots, how is throwing Spider-Man into the mix that big of a deal?
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Old January 13th, 2014, 03:22 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

See sig for my opinion.

Basically, we treat "SuperScape" as Heroscape, because that is what it is. Just as the differing terrains are part of the build-and-battle system, so DnD & Marvel are a part of the Heroscape system. They offer difficult challenges because it takes some additional strategy to know how to combat the supers, but I love the added depth and crossover.

Quote:
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Classic-Scape is just the Frosting for the Marvel-Scape cake!
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Old January 13th, 2014, 03:49 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Well met!

A very subjective issue, to be sure. For me, the inclusion of Supers relegates all the other units to spear carrier status thematically. Kaemon Awa must not be upstaged!



Next Generation

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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:24 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
For me, the inclusion of Supers relegates all the other units to spear carrier status thematically. Kaemon Awa must not be upstaged!
That's a good point, but just because one enjoys mixing Supers with Classic doesn't mean one ALWAYS has to mix them.

I definitely like to have a good ol' Classic Scape 'Orcs vs Samurai' or 'Legionnaires vs Indians' battle from time to time - with absolutely NO Supers involved. Or like chas noted, a 200pt 'cap' for lower point, pulpier games is a good rule of thumb to allow those Classic Scape Heroes like Kaemon Awa to shine.

Anyway, if you're not into it, you're not into it, simple as that. I would never be so bold as to tell someone what to play or enjoy - I completely respect the folks who don't like to mix simply because they don't like Comic Books or Super Heroes. I just think that Classic Scape makes a great supplement to Super Scape, especially if you're playing scenario-based games; Classic Scape figures can add a ton of thematic flavor.

Oh yeah, I thought of another Supers / Classic pairing that seems to get used quite a bit in our games - The Death Knights of Valkrill with... well, pretty much ANY Relentless Hero. I first used them with the C3G Solomon Grundy and had excellent results [I send Grundy out to smash stuff while the DKs spread out to all corners of the map - once he died my opponent has to split up his forces and scramble all over the place to try to take them out before Grundy returned!], another player teamed them with Wolverine, and a participant in my Tournament is planning to use them with Doomsday in this year's game, which will definitely make him one of the players to watch out for.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:35 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

The last thing I want to do is revive an old argument, so I'll just mention that the old debate had two sides from a purely gaming perspective when Marvel Scape first came out:

Con Against Mixing: "Supers are so powerful that Classics are useless."

Pro For Mixing: "I can take the Hulk or anyone else down with the right combo of Classics. And then you've lost all those points you invested in one character."

And after all, both are subgenres of Fantasy. Would the new Christmas C3G Unique Squad Fire Demons be just as happy following Taelord as Surtur? Sure. In fact, the Minions of Utgar would make excellent proxies for them, and the Obsidian Guards for their Blood Demons Common Squads, as I've mentioned elsewhere.

There was a similar debate about "D&D Scape," although that was clearly pointed to be compatible with Classic. And of course, there are all those Star Wars minis I own in the closet, which can be used for some CV customs, or HOSS. I'm sure someone has an argument against mixing those in also, and I suppose I would have to get permission in my group to use some, but...hmmm...

*MEANWHILE, IN THE RESTAURANT AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE:*

Darth Vader: "You are part of the Justice League Alliance, and a traitor!"

Flash (Wally West, as voiced by Michael Rosenbaum): "Chill out, Big Guy. I'm from an alternate dimension. But I do know recycled Evil bad breath when I smell it! Yuck!"

Raelin The Kyrie Warrior: "I'll distract this other big ugly for you, Masked Man. Here, Green and Gruesome, I've got a pretty treasure glyph for you to hold."

Ogre Warhulk: "Thank you, Pretty Bird Lady. Me like shinies."

***

Last edited by chas; January 13th, 2014 at 05:09 PM.
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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:42 PM
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Re: Mixing Super Scape With Classic Scape

What about going the other way? It occurred to me, has anyone just taken the stats for the 10 supers and created new fantasy or sci fi figures that would fit into the theme of Heroscape? Instead of Hulk use a unique hero troll figure for example and redo the card with a new miniature picture. Ironman could be a Vydar robot. Retains an "official" Hasbro produced figure but takes the theme away from the super hero universe. Anyway, just a thought.

My Custom Terrain Thread: http://www.heroscapers.com/community...read.php?t=448
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