C3G HR Department: the Dumping Ground

[IAmBatman]

Nothing wrong with the stewards of the project making calls on how to use the limited time and energy resources of the group. This seems to be a point that has 99% agreement and those who disagree have adequately expressed their opinions. Let’s get this thread back to design work.

If anyone is curious whether a specific property is viable for C3G design, there is a process in place for inquiring with the Heroes - please use it as appropriate.

For any complaints about C3G processes, please utilize the C3G HR thread. They will be treated as off-topic for this thread.

Thank you.

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Nothing wrong with the stewards of the project making calls on how to use the limited time and energy resources of the group. This seems to be a point that has 99% agreement and those who disagree have adequately expressed their opinions. Let’s get this thread back to design work.

If anyone is curious whether a specific property is viable for C3G design, there is a process in place for inquiring with the Heroes - please use it as appropriate.

For any complaints about C3G processes, please utilize the C3G HR thread. They will be treated as off-topic for this thread.

Thank you.

There's an HR thread?
There's a process for that?

I had 0 clue on these two points

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

For any complaints about C3G processes, please utilize the C3G HR thread. They will be treated as off-topic for this thread.

Thank you.

Alright then.

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

japes seemed to be saying that with or without a comic, it would still be a no. No one was ever saying that it would be done without a comic, but one is (apparently) in the pipe-line.

I used to think that, but all that seems to be the case now is that the Heroes are willing to consider something if they have a particular personal attachment to it, and not otherwise. When I see posts like this:

it's hard not to feel as though the criteria are a bit provincial.

HoF moves at a snails pace, seems not to test and designs units to fit into what people consider, generally, to be mostly an entirely different game at this stage. I wouldn't consider that a viable alternative. I think it's a shame that it's basically reached the stage that no one is willing to design anything, as part of a separate project or alone, to fit in with C3G style Superscape that isn't technically part of this project. If there were more of a vibrant community there, I'd find this sort of thing less frustrating.


I don't see any meaningful way being so restrictive about what is allowed helps anyone. The people who see great designs pushed to the wayside or a theme they love get discarded get frustrated and disappointed, while the people who didn't want to see that theme get to... not play with those units, which no one would have forced them to either way. There are already people who don't play with Jason, the only difference is that the unit wouldn't exist for people to make that choice. That seems to be a purely negative impact.

[ALEXAN2507]

Oh no wonder I didn't see this thread it hasn't been used in 5 years

[IAmBatman]

Thus the clarifications.

The Human Resources thread should be linked in the Welcome to C3G’s first few posts. It’s rarely used but appropriate here.

The proceedure for the other is quite simple: Ask the Heroes to officially rule on if a specific property is allowed.

[ALEXAN2507]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Thus the clarifications.

The Human Resources thread should be linked in the Welcome to C3G’s first few posts. It’s rarely used but appropriate here.

The proceedure for the other is quite simple: Ask the Heroes to officially rule on if a specific property is allowed.

Where would one ask this, exactly
In this thread or somewhere else?

[MrNobody]

Spoiler Alert!

Originally Posted by Lazy Orang

Or we could actually have a specific criteria, rather than 'if a specific group in the sanctum say it's fine, cool, if not, we don't care'. The 'mini and comic' one worked well, with a few exceptions (i.e. the likes of 40k and LotR, I recognise, would basically be projects of their own to cover properly). Right now, though, it seems cliquey and restrictive in the extreme, two things I never thought I'd have to say about a project I have spent years loving and respecting. Crushing any creativity that doesn't fit along specific lines a few people want does not benefit anyone here, and it is not something I can respect.

Thanks for the support, LO, but this does seem like a silly thing to quit over. The impression I got from Japes wasn't "You aren't doing what I like, so screw you" but that I, as someone who hasn't done all that much for the project, am not afforded the same trust to bend the rules as Arkham. Sure that's not fun to hear, but I don't think handing the kingdom keys over to any guy who's been around 3 months is good either. I've gone pretty heavy with the Doctor Who stuff, and everyone has generally been pretty supportive of that, even the guys who don't care about the show or the character.

Same goes for having strictly defined definitions of what is or isn't "appropriate." Sure, not having solid rules probably does lead to subjective biases. But I think having extremely strict and solid rules leads to its own set of problems too.

Originally Posted by japes

MrNobody is honestly doing a wonderful job of making that easy. Not once throughout have I felt anger, aggression, or disrespect from him.

Thank you for the kind words, Japes.

It seems like you and me actually agree on a lot of this stuff...but I do disagree with this paragraph;

Originally Posted by japes

This project evolves...It started out as Marvel and DC superheroes. Then years later we started getting Dark Horse, IDW, etc. The more tapped the Marvel and DC sources get the more things get added. There have been pushes in sanctum for anime by a few but honestly the more properties we add the less likely if feels that the long list of figures currently allowed that haven't been designed will be reduced. I personally have a long list of figures I'd like to see done some day just in Marvel, DC, TMNT, and Buffy the Vampire Slayer, not to mention GI Joe. The more things get added the less likely I feel that I'll ever see these guys on my table.

I don't think that's fair, or that one design is going to "take a spot" from another design. I guess I just don't see it as the new stuff replacing or overwhelming the old stuff, which seems to be one of the big worries. I want to design what I'm passionate and excited about. Sometimes that might be a Marvel or DC character (I'm really excited about Mon-El), but other times it won't. I'm probably never going to make a TMNT design. I don't have any particular love for the series, and I don't know much about outside of random episodes of the original cartoon. I just can't see myself getting excited about designing Mona Lisa or Cyber-Shredder. (But never say never, I guess.) But I don't think me designing a Doctor Who character I'm excited and knowledgeable about makes it any less likely those characters will ever get made. If someone is passionate about them, me making Daleks in no way stops them from making that happen.

I think allowing people to pursue their own passions is only going to be beneficial to the project. I was planning to start playtesting, but what really got me started on it was seeing Michael Myers pop up, because he's a character I really like and I wanted to see how he would work. Allowing people to pursue their own passions keeps the unit creators excited, because they get to do what they want, and I can attest that as a fan it brings new eyes to the project. Of course, that has to be tempered with some rules; people can't just design whatever the heck they want. But I also think limiting the amount of new properties added out of fear of losing focus on others is a mistake.

Originally Posted by ALEXAN2507

I was going to suggest since me and Mr Nobody seem to quite enjoy bouncing our less "practical" ideas around (ie, designs that don't necessarily have designated minis, or are less strictly comic based), why don't I just make a thread for them seperately, like I did for my DC Rebirth designs?

I guess I don't see the point of having a C3G thread for designs that aren't wanted in the C3G currently. (The Operator and the like) It seems like those might be better suited as personal customs or with HoF for the time being. What I can see really working out is a Video Game Workshop thread.

EDIT: Sorry, Bats, I didn't see your post. Feel free to delete this if needed, or I can just edit it out.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by ALEXAN2507

Oh no wonder I didn't see this thread it hasn't been used in 5 years

As a group we tend to spend a lot more time creating than complaining.

[Tornado]

So, please if you want to make Horrorscape with Jason and Freddy or whatever else, please do with our blessing. In fact, many C3G members may wander over to your thread and help out with that. We're just not going to do those designs in the C3G group project.

For what it's worth - if Mortal Kombat ever gets an official figure line, I'd probably push for its inclusion.

Two excluded genres that are now officially part of C3G.
I would say the process works just fine.

Love this post from V.

Originally Posted by Viegon

As one commenting with no opinion on this particular subject, I do agree with the Hero's current process for drawing the line. Certainly, it is based on opinions and who is or isn't in the Sanctum at the time, but then again, so is everything about this project; deciding things like whether or not Batman should get a second design or whether or not Galactus warrants so much complexity isn't based on logic, it can't be, it's based on opinions. A line has to be drawn somewhere, and no matter where it's drawn there is always going to be people unhappy with the decision.

You can argue that if X is allowed, Y should be allowed; but then what about Z? He's had almost as many comic appearances as Y. And don't forget W, he fought Batman once, same with U and V, even though they've only been in 10 comics. And, you know what? I've always felt T seemed a lot like a Super Hero, even if he wasn't much of a comic character.

Point is, this case is no different then plenty of others already faced and plenty of others to come, and a line has to be maintained. The only reasonable way to do that is how it's already done.

The heroes aren't trying to be unfair or stubborn, they're just trying to keep this project under control, and to do that decisions simply have to be made. Feel free to voice your disagreement or disappointment with those decisions, I certainly have from time to time; and, in some cases, that will change someone's mind, I'm certain there wouldn't be a reevaluation thread if the public hadn't complained about Puppet Master so much. But, if you're in the minority, continuing to insist on your opinion won't gain you any ground except to aggravate the people you're trying to reach.

[Arkham]

Since I've been name dropped several times in the past few pages, and have been used as a primary example, I feel an obligation to weigh in here before we move on, so excuse the belated response.

Firstly, I'll present this:

DC: 20
MARVEL: 10
INDY: 7 (most of which were just designed in the last 4 months)

That's my current design history. I did not start here attempting to design Mortal Kombat characters or Horror characters, in fact, Jason aside, I was ~23 designs under my belt before I tackled MK and Horror icons. I also primarily focus on traditional comic book heroes, and in no way gave the impression that I wanted to spend all my time and energy on something completely foreign.

Two things to address further:

1. Jason was supposed to be a one off, and he was for a couple of years. Even still, now that I've fleshed out a few of the most iconic characters, I absolutely accept others are off the table. Ghostface and Hannibal, who only appeared in some Cracked/MAD comics a couple of times, aren't allowed. Pennywise, a character I'd love to add, has no comic history, so he's off the table. That's OK.

As for them fitting in, Ash has crossed over with Marvel and many other comics, which includes Freddy and Jason, as well as Hack/Slash, which Chucky has also crossed over with. Jason has crossed over with Leatherface. They all fit in the alien/predator tone, which Batman has crossed over with. There's some precedent there.

2. Mortal Kombat characters have crossed over with DC characters in Mortal Kombat vs. DC and Injustice, have several comics over the years, and are currently under the DC umbrella as they are owned by WB. They also, and this is important, aesthetically look and feel like several characters in the Marvel/DC universe, so they blend in pretty naturally. Even still, I was reluctant to ever start Mortal Kombat, because of lack of minis, and just overall wanting to stay focused on the main appeal here. I even wrote up MK designs early on in my time here, only to abandon them until years later when I felt it was a reasonable avenue to explore.

I have no intentions of designing Laurie Strode and Dr. Loomis to go against Michael, or any other final girls or prominent characters of their respective series. Even Mortal Kombat, I have no plans to go crazy there either. It was always hit the high notes with these franchises. So doing common armies and squads and representing the C and D list characters, diving deep into those worlds, was never a thing I was pushing for. They are guest characters as Ronin put it and I have alluded to in sanctum when discussing how I see these guys. I treat them as crossovers or events. It's not about let's see how big we can expand them, or long term shifting focus away from what this project is about in favor of these other franchises.

Now, it's important to note, the reasonings I just gave don't absolutely make them acceptable. It makes a case for them. It provides foundation to the proposal. This isn't about who gets what they want and who has more power to force it. It's a matter of can you make a solid enough case for why, and laying out an overall vision to get people not just on board with it, but actually liking it at the end of the day.

The last thing I'd want, is for anyone to feel creatively stifled or limited. Get a few designs under your belt, then once you've established yourself a bit, come up with a solid pitch explaining all the things I just talked about. I'll gladly go to bat for you if you can do that.

One final note here. Mortal Kombat, Horror, and Dr. Who are a few that have recently been accepted. I wouldn't point to them and say "if we can have those why can't we have X, Y, Z?!". Let's be grateful. It's sort of the ol' "If I give you a cookie, then everyone is going to want a cookie." If every time something new is allowed, it's only going to lead to others wanting something else in and they're going to say "well you let this in, why not this?", people are going to in turn stop letting things in, and nobody gets a cookie. Appreciate the exceptions.

[Tornado]

Well said. Glad I name dropped.

[Lazy Orang]

What crossover clout does Dr. Who have? It seems he was let in because some of the heroes are Dr. Who fans.