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C3G Legacy Library This is the archive for all the designs released in the original era of C3G. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.

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  #109  
Old September 9th, 2019, 10:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Public Testing)

Spoiler Alert!

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (Mr. Freeze II)
Army Test 1
- Give a brief preview. Testing out the criminal synergies by bonding Freeze with the Lex Corp. Added Whirlwind as a 2nd Criminal bonding option, one who can blow opponents figures next to the ice blocks for the defensive subtraction if they move away. Grizzly Shark is along ofr the ride to try and chip in some opportunistic auto-wounds. Pitting them up against the very formidable Teen Titans squad.
Map: Tacilla Sunrise
Units: Mr. Freeze II @230, Lex Corp Security x2, Whirlwind, Grizzly Shark (800) vs. Nightwing, Starfire, Raven, Changeling, Hellfire: Ignition Spell (800)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: The Grizzly Shark wasn’t as useful here as I was thinking he would be going into it, I ended up not using a lot of normal attacks between Freeze dropping Ice Rocks for auto-wounds, and Whirlwind using his SA or auto-wound power. He did trigger off a couple of att. from the Lex Corp, but missed all his unblockable rolls. That also means I wasn’t making good use of the Lex Corp’s +1 att. boost, the OM flex & bonding was certainly still nice though. Even not playing to it’s full potential, the Criminals were fairly competitive here and were close to pulling out a win but Raven does what she does at the end of the game and the Criminals went down like so many others. I did want to point out in case you missed it that I placed two Ice Blocks adj. to each other and then made the second one placed roll an unblockable vs. the first. Realized later that I actually should have had both roll unblockables against each other since you place both first, then roll instead of placing and rolling one at a time. If that isn’t the intent (rolling unblockables vs. DO’s) then will need some clarification as I believe DO’s are considered figures.
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes, he showed pretty strong here but the 4 life keeps him grounded as a def. whiff sealed his fate in this one.
- What should be the unit's point value? Pretty close game overall vs. a very strong team so I’d say 230-240 looks like a good range after one game.
_____________________________________________________________
Army Test 2
- Give a brief preview. Teaming Freeze up with some Ice Resistance Allies to see just how much healing I can do with the Ice Blocks. Hush gives the team of otherwise unconnected allies OM flex while also boosting Freeze’s attack vs. his vendetta (Leo). TMNT have teamed up with Ozy, who can steal an OM for the Turtle Power to use. KAM wants to add ice to his drink, so he’ll be busting through the DO’s so Freeze can place them again while giving his allies even more healing.
Map: Tacilla Sunrise
Units: Mr. Freeze@230, Iceman, Frost Giant, Hush, KAM (900) vs. TMNT, Ozy (900)
Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Don’t make the mistake of just reading the final results and thinking that’s the bottom line here. Freeze’s team looked to have a fairly comfortable and easy win here going into R10. The Frost Giant’s 7 def./5 life combo is much more impressive when they can repeatedly and easily heal themselves from Ice Blocks. If only their 5 att. wasn’t so unimpressive for a Giant, it’s even worse when said Giant only rolled more than 2 skulls on 5 or 6 dice twice out of about a dozen att. rolls. That is far below average. In R10, Mickey won initiative, and took out a 3 life Freeze in one strike, that led to a domino effect that turned a win into a loss. Had Freeze won initiative, it most likely would have been a win for his team with a full life Freeze & Frost Giant. Furthermore, KAM never healed anyone on his own team, instead he healed two Turtles once each, including Mickey who won the game.
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes, again the 4 life here keeps him in check as he can fall rather suddenly and without warning.
- What should be the unit's point value? Even with the loss, I’d trend him back up to 240. The Ice Resistance team with an OM dump leader felt more effective and potent to me then the Criminal focused army in the last game. Having multiple figures than can heal themselves while destroying an Ice Rock and returning it to Freeze’s card is pretty sweet. Very fun unit though, happy to be able to use my Mr. Freeze figure again. Glad I have two TT sets, even so I might need to make some custom Ice Rocks just in case I play him on an Ice covered map.
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  #110  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Public Testing)

Thanks very much for the tests! I know you said you'd still lean towards 240, even with the 2 losses, but I feel with the overall results:

220:
Very close win.
Very close loss.
Medium win.
Medium win.

230:
Big loss.
Close loss.
Close loss.


240:
Close loss.
Close loss.

I'm thinking 230 should be good, and I'd prefer, especially with a V2 of a character several seemed to feel was lacking in playability...I'd prefer to error in his favor if possible(he also lost all 5 games at the 230-240 range fwiw). It's a 10 point difference, so we can just take a majority vote and let that decide as its not a huge deal either way, unless someone is adamant one way or the other and wants to make a hard case for it.

I propose we move to Final Editing. Would people prefer 230 or 240? Also, can we please get a wording check @Ronin ?
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  #111  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:08 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Quote:
Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.

Yes.

Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.

Yes.

Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.

Yes.

Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.

Yes.

Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.

N/A.

New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.

Yes.

New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.

Yes.

Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.

Yes.

Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.

Yes.
COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST
Spoiler Alert!
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  #112  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Public Testing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Also, can we please get a wording check @Ronin ?
Been leaving that up to quozl and Karat these days.
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  #113  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Yea to editing

I've no real opinion on a ten point difference.


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  #114  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:11 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Public Testing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Also, can we please get a wording check @Ronin ?
Been leaving that up to quozl and Karat these days.
But... but... but...
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  #115  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

I'm retired!
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  #116  
Old September 9th, 2019, 11:18 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
I'm retired!
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  #117  
Old September 10th, 2019, 04:30 AM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

I'll get to it sometime tomorrow.
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  #118  
Old September 10th, 2019, 06:23 AM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

230 seems fine to me here. I'd credit my solid wins with him more to Waller/Rick Flag and a nice map for Ivy (II) than Mister Freeze, per say (he did his part, mind you, but he wasn't driving the engine).

yea for either, with a preference to 230.

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  #119  
Old September 10th, 2019, 07:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Anyone else?
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  #120  
Old September 10th, 2019, 07:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Mister Freeze (II) (Vote for Final Editing)

Since I only came into this thread after it hit public play testing I figured you had a group following along passing it each step of the way. I can review the other test results in detail and vote if you need me to. I have not looked at any of the other results yet, just tested him blind to leave my impressions of the card fresh and uninfluenced by others. Other then seeing the points changed from 220 at the time I signed up, to 240, then to 230 that is. Not aware of why they were shifting, just that they did so I adjusted armies accordingly.
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