The Spellbook of Tarot: The Magician

[Yodaking]

What if the Tarot Deck power was a pre-game power. So as soon as you draft a figure with the Tarot Deck power on it's card, you pick up the Tarot Deck, shuffle it, and draw 3 cards. Then you continue your draft based on what you drew. So if you draw the Fool card, you suddenly change directions and draft an Insane figure or two. If you draw the Lovers card, you draft Black Canary & Green Arrow, or Hawkman & Hawkgirl, and they get some added benefit for that game. Then the cards are not so hit and miss, but rather it tells you who to team up with for that mission.

[MrNobody]

I think that's more in line with LO's original ideas, with the whole deck and a single reading at the start of the game.

I don't think we've ever had a power that activates mid-drafting (outside of like...Secret Identity stuff), have we? Wouldn't be against it, might just be pushing boundaries a bit, which I think we're already kind of doing with the whole concept.

[IAmBatman]

Mid-drafting powers get tricky because there's nothing in the game that mandates you actually draft to put together armies. There are all sorts of ways to play and using language referencing drafting seems like it'd cut those ways out.

[Lazy Orang]

Let me look at this a little later. I'm also going to get my Mum to look at some of this, since she's really the one with the best understanding of how Tarot works.
I will say that Yodaking's analysis of how Death and The Fool should work is... completely at odds with their actual meanings.

[Tornado]

Just keep in mind that these should represent how they work in the comics which could be the same or different than traditional interpretation.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Tornado

Just keep in mind that these should represent how they work in the comics which could be the same or different than traditional interpretation.

I already discussed that with Odysseus, coming to the conclusion that 1) it's better to educate than to perpetuate a misconception and 2) it's eminently possible to reconcile a cultural understanding of a card with its actual meaning through mechanics much of the time (i.e. rather than making Death about killing things, make it about recovering OMs when a figure's destroyed - still connects to the cultural 'duck is a duck' understanding of the Death card while also conveying its actual meaning of change, transition and moving forwards).

[MrNobody]

So it seems like we may need to go back to the drawing board on the whole Tarot idea, since there are a lot of new ideas swirling around. Some points of discussion that seem important;

1) When are the cards cast/activated? Should they be game-long readings, round-long reading, or something else?

2) Should they be random-draw or should you have more control over what your reading is? I think this is kinda tied into the first point. If they’re game-long effects I’d want more control, while if they only last for a round I think more random effects make sense.

3) How do we encourage the player to draft these things with Xanadu instead of other less thematic choices? If they are individual Spell cards (maybe they don’t have to be), what makes you want to draft Xanadu with them instead of Doom?

4) Do we lean more accurate to the “real” portrayals of the meanings or the more comic-y portrayal, even if that is an inaccuracy? LO has weighed in a lot here, but from some outside conversations I know some of y’all disagree with her. I’m personally currently leaning in a sort of “blended” approach, just based on which take I feel is stronger in the public consciousness. (So maybe for Death we do lean into some sort of mechanic that plays with destruction, but for The Fool we lean with a more “real” portrayal than an Insane synergy thing.)

I’m still kind of leaning in the direction I initially presented in the LCW. I’m interested in hearing other ideas/pitches, but this is your chance to either weigh in or not. Phone posting right now, but when I get to my computer I’ll try to link some of the other ideas/pitches that y’all have already put forward.

[Soundwarp SG-1]

My stance on the accuracy thing is: We’re not attempting to represent real world tarot, we’re documenting comic book tarot. Different universe with different rules.

So like if we can get certian cards to match up with both real and comic versions, that’s fine, but if like the Death card (or whatever) is shown to be a kill spell in the comics that’s what it has to be here. Like we don’t go changing facts about Marvel Thor to match up with Mythology Thor or what not.

Though it sounds like part of the issue is we don’t have concrete examples of what some of these do in the comics? For ones with lack of evidence like that, I would defer to what the real world cards actually mean over the ‘vague pop culture assumptions’ versions or just making stuff up or whatnot.

[Lord Pyre]

1) Don't care / LD's choice
2) Don't care / LD's choice
3) Your limit works fine. Otherwise maybe let her cast 3 at a time, if they're not terribly powerful. Or let her draft a certain amount of them at no cost.
4) Comic first, then blend if possible. Basically what SW said.

[Arch-vile]

I've been mostly quiet here (I'm fine with whatever direction) but my thought is this. How does Xanadu use her tarot deck in comics? I only know of her as more of a sage type figure that predicts a future (a stereotypical fortune teller). And I always figured the deck was random, but again I only barely know the character. For all I know real life fortune tellers stack the decks.

So my view would be to have her flip the deck (casting a spell) at certain set points, whether it be start of the round or game. That portrays a fortune reading pretty well IMO. But if she's thematically using the deck to cast spells during a fight, then let her do that. I personally find it odd that other spellcasters can use the Tarot spells at all, but I'm assuming figures like Constantine or Zatanna have used these at times?

[MrNobody]

Yeah, the theme here is that she's a fortune teller who uses her abilities to help people alter their fates. That can be assembling a superteam to help stop armageddon, or it can be helping a drug addict get help.

So the Tarot cards are meant to represent that; she's not using her powers to cast spells that affect the flow of battle, she's reading the future and using that knowledge to help her allies. That being presented through casting spell cards is definitely a bit of a thematic stretch, but when we discussed it in the brainstorm thread, it seemed like the easiest way to translate the Tarot concept into our game mechanics.

[Tornado]

That actually sounds a lot like the Divination power I was working on for the Shaman in my RPG. A lot of different mechanics to play with to make it work. Certainly enough for a full deck if that is what you want.