Marcu as your Last Figure+Eternal Hatred

[Firemaster]

All right, this has been discussed somewhat in the News thread and Marcu's book, but I figure it deserves a topic as it's own. Basically the question is as follows:

If Marcu Esenwein is the last figure you control, and he betrays you, does this cause you to lose the game?

As far as I can gather, there are two sides to this argument:

1. You do not lose, since you get him back at the end of the turn.

2. You do lose, since while your opponent is taking the turn with Marcu, you control no figures.


So, which side is correct? This is probably a question we should send off to Hasbro, as whatever we decide, it would be best if we get some kind of official answer. In any case, until this happens, we can discuss this question here.

Of course if the admins feel this topic is unnessesary, it can be closed/ deleted.

[Cavalier]

I don't see how this is a question. The unit is still yours, your opponent only gets to control it.

[LilNewbie]

Cav is right. Unlike Sir Hawthorne you don't give the card over to the opponent and you keep any order markers/figures on the card. The opponent just gets to dictate his actions for that activation/turn.

Newb.

[Billtog]

Indeed.

[rdhight]

If a lone Marcu's Hatred loses you the game, an enemy Dr. Doom Mind Exchanging your last hero would also lose you the game, wouldn't it?

[jcb231]

Neither one will lose you the game.

[rdhight]

That's what I meant.

Too bad Mind Exchange does not, itself, trigger Eternal Hatred. That would be a classic Doom death and a classic Marcu kill. He tries to take control of Marcu, but the hate is TOO STRONG!

[Revdyer]

Add my "Nay" to the pile.

[Tiberius]

I originally thought it would end the game but after hearing everyone's justifications you have swayed me. Since you do not gain control of the figure or the owner does not lose ownership of the figure, basically, the opponent is taking your turn for you, and that is all.

[Junge Roman]

"at the end of turn, control of Macu returns to you."

So, you do NOT retain control of the figure. If you don't control it, is it still yours?

That's the key question to me.

[kenjib]

Originally Posted by Junge Roman

"at the end of turn, control of Macu returns to you."

So, you do NOT retain control of the figure. If you don't control it, is it still yours?

That's the key question to me.

I agree. Here's a typical victory objective from the rulebook. This one is for Clashing Fronts:

"Victory: When the other side has no figures left on the battlefield, you win. If th ebattle reaches the end of Round 12, then the battle is over and th eplayer or team with the most points on the battlefield wins (see Scoring, on page 14 in the Master Game Guide)."

Even though it will return to you later, once it is under control of your opponent you do not have any figures left on the battlefield. I think that technically from an anal retentive rules-lawyer perspective you would lose the game but I also think that Hasbro/WotC would rule otherwise and that you wouldn't lose because I think that's more the intent of the rules, if not the letter, and the Dr. Doom thing in particular makes that clear.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Junge Roman

"at the end of turn, control of Macu returns to you."

So, you do NOT retain control of the figure. If you don't control it, is it still yours?

That's the key question to me.

It doesn't matter either way. As per the DW7K ruling, the results of the game aren't set until the turn is completely finished. Even if you have zero figures on the board mid turn, as long as you have at least one left at the end of the turn, you're fine.

To pull out another really bizarre situation that could happen, picture this. Your opponent flies in with Silver Surfer and destroys your last figure. In a bizarre move, they then decide to use their Special Move to land on the Glyph of Sturla. If, at this point, any of figures are revived, you do not lose the game, even though in the middle of the turn you didn't have any remaining figures.