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Old November 16th, 2015, 03:44 AM
TechToaster TechToaster is offline
 
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Un-Official Expansion

So I felt that Arena of the Planeswalkers would REALLY benefit from a larger cast of planeswalkers to choose from, and the fact they will be introducing Dual Color planeswalkers in the new Battle for Zendikar expansion, I decided to expand the current roster... by doubling it entirely.

I've got the first Five of Seven planeswalkers hashed out, still deciding on the last one to work with. All of these planeswalkers have custom mechanics I fleshed out in my little head and have specific themes that their decks will follow (and yes I will be making 12 card decks for each planeswalker as well; Something that won't even be done for the two new planeswalkers debuting in January.)

So first, here are the five planeswalkers I've already poured alot of time into fleshing out:



When I was first picking out how to use and what stats to give them, I discovered that the original 5 planeswalkers we were given to use all had a base stat number of either 19, 20 and 21 when you add together their life/movement/power/toughness. What we had this far with planeswalkers was a whole bunch of ranged with only 1 melee, and I decided to mix that up by having a whole bunch of melee fighters with some ranged. But don't get me wrong, the melee planeswalkers are still hella scary to deal with.

On a side note, I haven't decided the costs nor the heights yet, so some of those are just placeholders.

The next two planeswalkers I plan on making are:
  1. Elspeth
  2. Vraska (Maybe, still deciding on her or another planeswalker)
I have also located miniatures for all of these new planeswalkers as well:
  1. Garruk : https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineSto...sku-down/77055 (This one was found by Kajoq)
  2. Sorin : https://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/02985
    (Just cut off the ascot looking thing and it looks surprisingly close)
  3. Ajani : https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineSto...sku-down/02880
  4. Narset : https://www.reapermini.com/FigureFinder#detail/02629
  5. Sarkhan : https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineStore/mage/sku-down/77222
    (If anyone can find a better model, PLEASE let me know)
  6. Elspeth : http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/s...rd-shield.html OR http://www.darkswordminiatures.com/s...ad-hunter.html
On top of all of this, I will also be making a few custom maps and game-types to specifically accommodate up to 3v3 objective based combat, which me and a bunch of local friends will be play testing thoroughly for our pleasure and your benefit.


I am open, and HEAVILY welcome and invite all constructive criticism. I would very much enjoy hearing multiple peoples views and opinions on these planeswalker builds.


-TechToaster

** EDIT **

Squad Creatures preview for the Garruk and Sorin planeswalkers in this thread.




*** UPDATE 12/18/2016 ***

Got pre-occupied with finishing up my Associate's Degree at one college followed by trying and succeeding at getting accepted into University of Texas at Dallas for Game Design.

My next semester I will be taking Game Design 1 (since I completed Fundamentals for Game Design this past semester) which is literally design an Alpha and Beta for a custom boardgame of my own creation. As such, I will be picking this project back up for practice (not for homework) as a study in both Level Design with hexes but also Character Design and Game Balance with new Planeswalkers/Creatures/Heros/Spells (hopefully).

During the winter break, I hope to re-hash these previous builds since they were designed BEFORE Shadows over Innistrad came out (which, isn't it kinda fricking cool that both my Transform ability appeared in the newest set???). I want to do this because with the release of many new Heroes and Multi-color Planeswalkers, I have ALOT more reference material to utilize while trying to find out the best way to balance.

Stay tuned!

Last edited by TechToaster; December 19th, 2016 at 12:02 AM.
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  #2  
Old November 16th, 2015, 07:55 AM
Kajoq Kajoq is offline
 
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Nice!

Few bits of input:
Garruk doesn't have a points cost

Sorin - Mortify probably shouldn't use up your attack in addition. Compare to Snuff out or Ob Nixilis' abilities that outright kill a creature.

Ajani - Doublestrike wording - What about 'when this creature attacks for the first time, if the attack fails to do damage you may make an additional attack'.
or
'When this creature attacks you may re-roll any dice that come up (Shield)'
In my mind Doublestrike shouldn't give you the ability to affect your opponents' defense, just improve your own

Narset's - knockback wording could probably be cleaned up. I forget which, but I'm pretty sure there's an official Heroscape figure with this ability templated 'correctly' for HS.
She also seems really really weak for a range 1 unit. No way I'm going to be bringing her in to melee range against Firecats, Pummelroots, or Abyssal reapers, she'll get dropped in a single round with only 5 HP and 3 def. I think she could be bumped up a couple squares of range (somewhere like 2-4) so she can sort of sit behind your first line of units and harass. Still fits thematically as the introverted monk force-blasting dudes into rocks and trees at short range while leading her units into battle.

Sarkhan - Dragon-Kin should probably have a +2 or +3 limit or else he's a common drake/dragon squad away from being insane.

On to the minis:
Sarkhan - Check out this reaper fig. A little bit of green-stuff to turn that staff into an Axe and I think would be perfect

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineSto...sku-down/89013

Elspeth - the model you picked really reminds me a lot more of Thalia (who would be a great custom Unique Hero unit to pair with Elspeth) I feel like Elspeth really needs the hood to stand out. I did a quick skim in the figure finder and didn't see anything that really struck me though.
Edit: Man.. really wish this had the hood. but here's another close one

https://www.reapermini.com/Miniature...4/latest/03364
Double Edit: I overlooked the 2nd one you posted, That one is killer for Theros-Era Elspeth!
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  #3  
Old November 16th, 2015, 11:16 AM
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Are these legitimate Planeswalkers, I have the AOTP game and love to play it, but I'm not a magic card game player. The cards look great. Once the little edits are complete I shall add in a figure hitzone and print these guys out. Again, these are cool, great work.
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  #4  
Old November 16th, 2015, 11:20 AM
Kajoq Kajoq is offline
 
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Yup, These are all actual storyline Planeswalkers from the MTG universe. In fact we'll probably see 2-3 of these in the expansion that follows Zendikar's
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Old November 16th, 2015, 12:37 PM
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Pelloth might be a good stand-in for Sorin?
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  #6  
Old November 16th, 2015, 01:08 PM
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshMEL View Post
Pelloth might be a good stand-in for Sorin?
Lord knows you wouldnt use him for anything else.


wriggz's custom Figures and Terrain

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  #7  
Old November 16th, 2015, 02:00 PM
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by IshMEL View Post
Pelloth might be a good stand-in for Sorin?
Lord knows you wouldnt use him for anything else.
, what if you need to kill some of your own guys, come on.
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  #8  
Old November 16th, 2015, 04:53 PM
TechToaster TechToaster is offline
 
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Nice!

Few bits of input:
Garruk doesn't have a points cost
I haven't calculated points for any of them, those points are just placeholders left over from the cards I used to make these. But I will be calculating point cost after I finish hashing out the balancing of planeswalkers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Sorin - Mortify probably shouldn't use up your attack in addition. Compare to Snuff out or Ob Nixilis' abilities that outright kill a creature.
Actually, Liliana is 100%, entirely, without question, banned from play between me and all the friends I play with for the sheer fact of how OP Snuff Out is. With Ob Nixilis, at least the player suffering the death of their unit get's to draw a card. I made that ability take the place of their attack for how powerful that ability is though. I mean, if Sorin is going against Gideon for example, he can just nuke all of Gideon's enchantments each time they come out, so it wouldn't be fair if he could do that AND THEN proceed to shrek through Gideon's defenses.

On the flip side, Mortify is pretty OP itself because Sorin can destroy enchantments that place negative modifiers on Sorin, his units, or even friendly units. Perhaps I should place a caviat in there stating he can only nuke enchantments on units (including himself) that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Sorin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Ajani - Doublestrike wording - What about 'when this creature attacks for the first time, if the attack fails to do damage you may make an additional attack'.
or
'When this creature attacks you may re-roll any dice that come up (Shield)'
In my mind Doublestrike shouldn't give you the ability to affect your opponents' defense, just improve your own
Ajani was a tough guy to really determine what abilities would work best with him that aren't currently used by anyone else. I went with the doublestrike, which is much like Chandra's ability, except it's a gamble.

Essentially, how I want Double Strike to work is this: Let's say Ajani declares an attack against a unit that has a defense of 3. Defending unit rolls their three die and lands 2 shields, but Ajani only rolls 3 swords. The attack would deal one point of damage, but perhaps Ajani wants to try again to roll 4 or 5 swords. They can, but if they do, they forfeit their first roll and can roll ONE MORE TIME, but if they roll all shields, that's tough luck on their part. It's a gamble.

And, because this Ajani is the Mentor of Heroes, I thought he should have the ability to give his units the same ability if they are nearby him. I will definitely try and make this more clear in the wording, as Ajani has TONS of room on his card for this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Narset's - knockback wording could probably be cleaned up. I forget which, but I'm pretty sure there's an official Heroscape figure with this ability templated 'correctly' for HS.
She also seems really really weak for a range 1 unit. No way I'm going to be bringing her in to melee range against Firecats, Pummelroots, or Abyssal reapers, she'll get dropped in a single round with only 5 HP and 3 def. I think she could be bumped up a couple squares of range (somewhere like 2-4) so she can sort of sit behind your first line of units and harass. Still fits thematically as the introverted monk force-blasting dudes into rocks and trees at short range while leading her units into battle.
I 100% agree, the wording is terrible and lengthy. I do think I could remedy this by being more precise with how I word it, but for some inside reference I was thinking about a few characters from LoL that have a knockback ability.

As for the range, I do think I may have a way to fix this up, an ability I was toying with but decided to not include it unless people brought up Narset being too 'weak' (which is funny because I still think she's OP in certain situations).

So, how I want and hope Narset to work, is that if she deals 2 or more damage to a figure, she has the option to continue her assault and go for a 'combo', which is her knock back. The player controlling Narset then declares a space or hex that is within 3 clear sight spaces. Then, roll for the attack. Sword, knock back is successful and deals 1 extra point of damage, pushing the figure to the declared space. If you roll a shield, Narset is unsuccessful and she herself takes 1 point of damage. If you roll nothing, nothing happens.

Now, how the 'If the figure is knocked back into any terrain or obstacles, deal an extra point of damage' should work as such. If a Figure is knocked into a tree, deal damage. If a figure is knocked into a wall OR terrain that is stacked HIGHER than their height, deal 1 point of damage. Knocked back into water and nothing happens. Knocked off a cliff? Roll for fall damage as normal! I do hope this clears alot of stuff up and, if not, PLEASE ask me a scenario that is not clear. This is helping me alot!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Sarkhan - Dragon-Kin should probably have a +2 or +3 limit or else he's a common drake/dragon squad away from being insane.
While this is true, how many drake / dragon squads are you aware of? I only planned on making 1 drake squad for him, while any Dragon squads I presume would be a Hero unit with only 1 figure. But, since Hero units aren't out yet and I don't know how they work, I am making none (though I have ideas for some. For instance, Sorin will have the Hero Unit Avacyn, because that is the one that makes the absolute MOST sense to me)

I anticipate Sarkhan only growing to a max of 6/6, and maybe I should turn his range down to 6 or 5 because of this. And honestly, I'm kinda going with the a rule of thumb that no character is Over Powered, but the other characters are just too weak, and will themselves gain buffs to become competitive against them rather than making everyone weak and in turn making the game dull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
On to the minis:
Sarkhan - Check out this reaper fig. A little bit of green-stuff to turn that staff into an Axe and I think would be perfect

https://www.reapermini.com/OnlineSto...sku-down/89013
THANKS!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Elspeth - the model you picked really reminds me a lot more of Thalia (who would be a great custom Unique Hero unit to pair with Elspeth) I feel like Elspeth really needs the hood to stand out. I did a quick skim in the figure finder and didn't see anything that really struck me though.
Edit: Man.. really wish this had the hood. but here's another close one

https://www.reapermini.com/Miniature...4/latest/03364
Double Edit: I overlooked the 2nd one you posted, That one is killer for Theros-Era Elspeth!
Actually, I was going to making a tiny fabric hood to attach to the unit because, let's face it, that part is hella easy. You can pick any figure model for a character and make minor adjustments. In fact I'll be adding fur to my Garruk! I personally am a big fan of the first one I posted and will be using that one for my Elspeth, while anyone else is free to use whatever figure they want XD
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Old November 16th, 2015, 05:38 PM
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

[quote=TechToaster;2057027]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Nice!
Actually, I was going to making a tiny fabric hood to attach to the unit because, let's face it, that part is hella easy. You can pick any figure model for a character and make minor adjustments. In fact I'll be adding fur to my Garruk! I personally am a big fan of the first one I posted and will be using that one for my Elspeth, while anyone else is free to use whatever figure they want XD
It would be super easy to make a hood with greenstuff as well, if its a reaper bones figure its gotta be painted anyway.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 06:14 PM
Kajoq Kajoq is offline
 
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Quote:
Originally Posted by TechToaster View Post
Actually, Liliana is 100%, entirely, without question, banned from play between me and all the friends I play with for the sheer fact of how OP Snuff Out is. With Ob Nixilis, at least the player suffering the death of their unit get's to draw a card. I made that ability take the place of their attack for how powerful that ability is though. I mean, if Sorin is going against Gideon for example, he can just nuke all of Gideon's enchantments each time they come out, so it wouldn't be fair if he could do that AND THEN proceed to shrek through Gideon's defenses.

On the flip side, Mortify is pretty OP itself because Sorin can destroy enchantments that place negative modifiers on Sorin, his units, or even friendly units. Perhaps I should place a caviat in there stating he can only nuke enchantments on units (including himself) that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Sorin.
While I agree Snuff out is very powerful, I don't think Liliana is out of balance with the other 4 PWs in the box. I've probably got ~8-10 games with each color at this point and everyone seems pretty in line. Snuff out has a pretty strong restriction (figure must have been damaged) and you must choose Liliana as your army card for that turn.

Your point about just peeling off Gideon's enchantments you make it sound like it's completely free. You're having to pay a major cost to remove the enchant (a squad figure) AND give up a 4-6 dice roll.

It's also at odds with the 'Death's Grasp' ability because you're encouraging the Sorin player to choose him back to back if it triggers, but you give up the ability to use Motify AND get the bonus dice
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Old November 16th, 2015, 06:39 PM
TechToaster TechToaster is offline
 
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kajoq View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TechToaster View Post
Actually, Liliana is 100%, entirely, without question, banned from play between me and all the friends I play with for the sheer fact of how OP Snuff Out is. With Ob Nixilis, at least the player suffering the death of their unit get's to draw a card. I made that ability take the place of their attack for how powerful that ability is though. I mean, if Sorin is going against Gideon for example, he can just nuke all of Gideon's enchantments each time they come out, so it wouldn't be fair if he could do that AND THEN proceed to shrek through Gideon's defenses.

On the flip side, Mortify is pretty OP itself because Sorin can destroy enchantments that place negative modifiers on Sorin, his units, or even friendly units. Perhaps I should place a caviat in there stating he can only nuke enchantments on units (including himself) that are within 4 clear sight spaces of Sorin.
While I agree Snuff out is very powerful, I don't think Liliana is out of balance with the other 4 PWs in the box. I've probably got ~8-10 games with each color at this point and everyone seems pretty in line. Snuff out has a pretty strong restriction (figure must have been damaged) and you must choose Liliana as your army card for that turn.

Your point about just peeling off Gideon's enchantments you make it sound like it's completely free. You're having to pay a major cost to remove the enchant (a squad figure) AND give up a 4-6 dice roll.

It's also at odds with the 'Death's Grasp' ability because you're encouraging the Sorin player to choose him back to back if it triggers, but you give up the ability to use Motify AND get the bonus dice
Correct me if I am wrong here, but couldn't Liliana just attack a unit, then if she manages to get just one hit in, then she can just use snuff out? Because that's how we've been playing and it just seems too over powered. Though it could honestly be just the sheer fact that the board pieces we currently have leave a LOT of clear sight all over the place (they really don't give you much in the first box, lol). This could maybe even be fixed with the heroscape tiles I'm ordering and the custom walls/trees/rocks I'll be making that will get rid of ALOT of clear sight.

On a side note, Sorin says to sacrifice a squad creature, and I meant for it to being able to destroy -any- creature. I wrote his up late at night so I can definitely see where that was lost in translation. Perhaps I should make it to where he can use Mortify on ANY creature within 3 or 4 clear sight spaces that has only 1 life point left to destroy target enchantment.

**EDIT**

OR

Sorin may choose one of the following:
1) Sorin may sprint to a wounded enemy squad creature (NOT HERO UNITS) that has only 1 health remaining within 3 clear sight spaces from Sorin. Destroy target creature to destroy target enchantment. This takes place of your attack phase.
2) Sorin may sprint to a wounded enemy figure within 3 clear sight spaces from Sorin. This does not take place of your attack phase.
3) Sorin may sacrifice a creature under his control to destroy target enchantment. This does not take the place of your attack phase.

Last edited by TechToaster; November 16th, 2015 at 07:05 PM.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 06:50 PM
Kajoq Kajoq is offline
 
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Re: Un-Official Expansion

Ahhh, okay. Your 'Sacrifice' wording implies -only- your creatures in MTG terms. If it's a Destroy Target Squad creature + Destroy Target enchantment you're right, that's extremely powerful and warrants giving up your attack for the turn.

And yes, you are correct about Lili's ability. Yes it is powerful, but compare it to a full squad of Reavers. 9-12 dice against targets with -2 defense compared to 4-5 dice against a single target.

Just to number crunch a little bit.
Lili @ 4 dice vs 3 def dice: ~75% chance to deal at least 1 wound
Lili @ 4 dice vs 4 def dice: ~65% chance to deal at least 1 wound
Lili @ 4 dice vs 5 def dice: ~55% chance to deal at least 1 wound
Lili @ 5 vs 3 = ~85
Lili @ 5 vs 4 = ~77
Lili @ 5 vs 5 = ~68

So yes, you have a strong chance to pull a model off the table if you activate her, but if you activate a full squad of Reavers you have a pretty Similar chance to peel a unit AND damage a 2nd
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