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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment |
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#25
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
Play test update, (Grimnak, blade and heavy gruts for 230 vs Rhotaga and 1 dzu-teh squad for 225) after a few rounds, Grimnak completely decimated the dzu-teh due to bonding chomps and initiative rolls. With Grimnak only receiving 3 wounds from a lucky dzu teh with height advantage and rolling a critical fail. Rhotaga was forced to engage taking him 2 turns to traverse into combat with a move of 5 instead of 6, with height advantage at the end result. Summoned a single hunter just for it to get chomped yet again the following opponents turn. With the orcs closing in I paused the test to hypothesize that Grimnak would be destroyed relatively soon after with Rothaga having a sweet spot of height advantage potentially turning the tide against the incoming horde if he 1. Took very few wounds 2. was able to juke the squads with traverses and pick them off one by one while simultaneously hopefully respawning more hunters in the process 3. Utilized reach with the glacier mountain on his rear (if we went that route). I have not yet considered using the temporary elite dzu teh figure for aid in this play test. Perhaps testing with 2 sets of dzu teh would be in order and maybe against marro? Chomp is dangerous no matter which way you slice it. It’s either the guillotine or test your luck against 4 orcs.
Update #2: Rhotaga maintained high ground by not moving, with an attack of 6 because of height he was able to almost but ensure a kill each round. Grimnak fell as expected within the next round or two. The dzu teh summoning failed more often than not with no dzu-teh to aid the roll. He did however kick things into high gear by eventually respawing 2 dzu-teh hunters who were able to survive their two individual opponents and slaying both when it came to their turn (1 had height advantage). Rothaga ended the game with 5 wounds on the brink of death with 1 hunter. |
#26
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
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I get wanting to move him quicker in snow or ice but to me...that's why the king would hang around the glaciers where he rules supreme. It does limit him from racing around on a snow/ice map unless there are glaciers present but to me that's why that power is there and I wouldn't want him to be over 200 points. I dislike most customs that come in that high due to possible power creep - doesn't always happen but it can. There's nothing wrong with including it but to me that's really having 4 powers written into three instead of my (and yes it's just my not necessarily your) limit of three powers. He's probably fine in your worlds...and I like all of your ideas but I would drop the snow/ice movement and focus on keeping the figure near glaciers...it gives other range figures the opportunity to whittle down the king before being drawn in to a the final battle in which he can outmaneuver them. Edit: Just read the battle report...Keep the kin back with 1 Dzu-Teh and use the others as assassins and I think you'll find the blades drop quickly and it would leave heavies and Grimnak (with a blade or two) vs the king and 1 Dzu-Teh. The Gruts should win more often than not depending on the summoning rolls) but that tells you the points should be around (120+70+20 ish-25 ish or roughly 160 ish). Just when you thought it was all right, someone made it alright. Good trades with - Porkins / xraine69 / mac122 (x2) / frylock / Ztimster (x2) and probably others I forgotten to mention...sorry. Last edited by AMIS; October 29th, 2022 at 11:42 AM. Reason: Remember this is your custom not mine!!! |
#27
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
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Prior to opening my own thread I posted a rough draft of this design based at 225. This included glacier traverse enhanced, glacier camo, enhanced tundra movement as one ability, a dzu teh summon/move concept, and dzu teh enhancement or something along those lines, like I said I’ve hacked chipped at this design several times kinda finding new trajectories in the process. Some feedback I received was that 225 was in their opinion too high in that for the cost you wouldn’t be able to effectively use him to his intended potential and justify said cost he takes up in your army while simultaneously being limited to the tundra. Furthermore, to concise powers and scratch some. So far we’ve scratched the 1. Him having a bonding idea 2. Enhancing of minions 3. Glacier camo (which in my opinion already puts him at a significant disadvantage having no ranged abilities of his own (scratched the glacier hurl concept) and with no minions with that capability. Archers or ranged units of any kind will be able to put a dwindle in his life stocks, just thinking of syvarris with height advantage. If he’s engaged and can’t take the fight to them without taking engagement attacks or is blocked by his own units who are defending him I just saw him stuck unless we included the reach. Yes he had the potential to hide behind a glacier mountain at that point but who’s to say your opponent hasn’t taken that into account and is covering the entire outside of the tundra or specific focal points consisting of mountains. I’m ok with the gamble I want him to be make you think and strategize as opposed to running in and bashing despite his model. I’m ok with 160 to 175 (thematic number I guess to match a 75 dzu teh traditional card) being up for debate I had figured as much since he is combining powers yes BUT in my opinion it is unique in that he’s freaking awesome because he can do what they can do to a degree, but more. I try not to use more than 3 power bar slots on custom cards if I don’t have to, I’m just a headache I know lol I do it to myself. And yes it’s my baby at the end of the day and this probably won’t expand upon my own games at least for this model. Which is why I felt he would’ve been lackluster if he was limited by using each individual power separately a dzu teh can provide without having anything original. He’s quite literally supposed to be an expansion of an expansion. I was so excited to receive my first tundra set I’m ape shnikey for Sasquatches and yetis and stuff. However, the day an age of potentially no annihilation we live in…today… is rare now and therefore pricey so I didn’t know how many more I’d get in the future or how much terrain etc. So, when I saw this guy in my local Gamestore I immediately knew where he was supposed to go being my first attempt at a custom with my friends so far back before I even had an account and here. He’s changed quite a bit recently but on and off since his release on my table and still have gotten no other dzu teh past the two sets I own. One thing that had stayed consistent was his continuous glacier traversing (visually and thematically a great time) and enhanced snow and ice movement. We split those he loses reach for 150 in my opinion. You combine that with the elite guy or elder guy whatever with his abilities hopefully at 75 or 85, if he can manage for a grand total of (75+75+85+150) 375 or 385 for 2 hunters 1 elite and 1 king army? |
#28
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
Also, in regards to the play test strategy you suggested. I agree holding him back with 1 could be the goal if you could only draft 1 squad. In that scenario, let’s say the assassins fail and my rolls were crap because perhaps we up it to say 15 or 16? since in theory, at best one could get like a plus 8 if he were completely surrounded and he’s ideally 150 points. Your opponent begins to close in with nerak and some orcs, kills your last dzu teh with height advantage. Rhotaga traverses away from combat after receiving a few wounds, only spawning one to lose after abandoning it lol. Thus, failing to spawn the next two rounds to new 16 or higher for arguments sake and gets 2 traverses in before halted since to traverse now costs two spaces to land on heavy snow and slippery ice. Yes he got some distance luckily because the glacier mountains were one space apart, but now with no ice healing ability you’d be on defense 100 percent of the time if you hoped to rebuild what you had lost with your dzu teh. Don’t get me started on flying characters. Cyprien could definitely one turn this guy without hitting 6 wounds with chill touch. That’s included in his own domain in my opinion if he doesn’t get the movement.
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#29
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
At least with camo you could force them to approach or chase you and he wouldn’t need movement enhancements, but it feels like we’re way past that at this point lol.
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#30
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
This is all not to say you could be forced to completely abandon your domain to attack on any other terrain despite lava obviously lol so that you could try to dwindle your opponents army points since rhotaga and/or his boys are all you have left or to grab a glyph to help your quickly dissipating army for whatever reason. As you stated previously ask myself what he could do alone? it’s not unjust to say that the limitations he has to do cool stuff are not valid points when discussing his cost of 150 ish the price it would take to draft 2 dzu teh sets for an even 300 sounds nice is all I’m saying
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#31
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
Okie dokie finishing up the polishes, just wanted to clarify a question I received from my group which i thought was eyebrow raising.
@AMIS
, if we went your suggested route and scratched the movement does that mean it’s (move adjacent to a mountain with 1 space being 2 and traverse for free or does landing count as a move? Thus, being an additional 2 spaces to land?
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#32
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
The original Glacier Traverse was instead of movement this may need to be reworded a little to clarify. You have a different set up for it because it's the King...
'Rhotaga may Glacier Traverse more than once per movement phase instead of moving normally. To Glacier Traverse, move to any unoccupied space adjacent to a Glacier Mountain and continue moving if possible.' Heavy Snow/Slippery Ice is 2 movement which (and I could be wrong here) is the same as moving uphill by 1 (1 up and 1 landing on - Snow and Ice would be 1 to move through and 1 landing on) so the traverse you would need to specify if it's 1 moving across and then landing on a snow/ice tile. So...Standing beside a glacier for me is standing...Moving across the glacier is 1, landing is 1 (so far 2 to 'hop a berg') then to move again it would be 1 to move and 1 to land (so far 4) and if possible once more for 3 berg hops (which sounds more like an industrial punk band). He does have 6 movement after all. This would be how'd I'd play it (Heroscape, not Industrial Punk - is that even a thing?). Cyprien and flyers in heavy snow and slippery ice cold also be ground bound with a high winds scenario. We tend not to use many flyers in our group and when they do appear everyone has a unit or two know and again so I can't really speak to how to deal with them except to add range and/or flight to the army. As for the above "Some feedback I received was that 225 was in their opinion too high in that for the cost you wouldn’t be able to effectively use him to his intended potential and justify said cost he takes up in your army while simultaneously being limited to the tundra." I think that can be very true and I'm still pretty sure that if you play test vigorously Rhotaga will come out around 10 to 15 points higher than 150...If you're looking for a standard army of 2 Dzu-Teh's (150), Rhotaga (165 - Total of 315 means a large part of an army but leaves enough for a different faction) and then add Puddles the Elite Snowflake Rider (don't use that name ). That could be an even 400 pts (a bigger part of the army) depending on how tough Puddles becomes. Sorry...but don't know where Puddles came from... Just when you thought it was all right, someone made it alright. Good trades with - Porkins / xraine69 / mac122 (x2) / frylock / Ztimster (x2) and probably others I forgotten to mention...sorry. Last edited by AMIS; October 30th, 2022 at 07:56 AM. Reason: Oh No...Puddles is attacking Taelord! |
#33
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
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#34
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
Ok so how I imagined it was to traverse in itself is one move so one space. If you are not already adjacent to the mountain let’s say it’s 1 space to move next to it, to then traverse adjacent to it (land) on any empty space adjacent to that mountain which is then a total move of 2 (this was the concept including snow and ice movement. That was the original goal. So, it’s still up for more interpretation. Also, scratched the movement of 6 to 5. Trying to lower some stats to validate price. I also did a deep dive on the traditional dzu-teh and saw the community split with the wording of specifications as to how traversing works in general when one begins you may do it with any or all dzu-teh. I’d still argue you could traverse with all and attack with only 3 if you were to stack squads but I digress.
How do we feel about 170 (rhotaga) 150 (2 squad sets) 80 (puddles lol)=400 points army. Leaving room for like a unique hero or something in a traditional 500 point game. Rhotaga (Jandar) Dzu-Teh Unique Hero King Wild Huge 9 Life:6 Move:5 Range:1 Attack:4/5 Defense:4/2 THAELENK KING: SNOW AND ICE ENHANCED MOVEMENT: GLACIER REACH: I know it’s unconventional to go with 4 powers, but let’s say for arguments sake he makes the theme and build to include the respawn everything we’ve discussed with heavy stipulations, would he still make the 175/180 range or go up to 225 the cost it would take to draft 3 dzu teh Last edited by OCDJ-scaper; October 30th, 2022 at 03:43 PM. |
#35
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
To give us better perspective I have both the dzu-ten’s and Rhotaga’s powers here so we can analyze the differences and word choice.
Glacier Traverse: If a Dzu-Teh is adjacent to a Glacier Mountain, the Dzu-Teh may Glacier Traverse instead of moving normally. You may do this with any or all Dzu-Teh you control each turn. To Glacier Traverse, move to any unoccupied space adjacent to that Glacier Mountain. Glacian or Thaelenk or Tundra lol King: If Rhotaga is adjacent to a Glacier mountain at any point during his movement phase, he may Glacier Traverse as 1 space. You may do this more than once each turn. To Glacier Traverse, move to any unoccupied space adjacent to that Glacier Mountain. Continue moving if possible. |
#36
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Re: OCDJ’s Custom Concepts and Discussions ⭕️
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Just when you thought it was all right, someone made it alright. Good trades with - Porkins / xraine69 / mac122 (x2) / frylock / Ztimster (x2) and probably others I forgotten to mention...sorry. Last edited by AMIS; October 30th, 2022 at 09:09 PM. Reason: He might just work well at 185...with the four skills I mean... |
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