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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #109  
Old September 30th, 2013, 11:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

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Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Looks like he'll be quite the counter to the likes of Invisible Woman and Cap's Avenger bonus. As well as tricky specials such as Doom's trap and War Machine's auto chain gun.

Add on the fact that he can place 3 shadow spaces into your base for extra defense, he definitely makes worth of his points.

Good stuff.
I don't see how he's a counter to Invisible Woman or Captain America... he prevents people from "targeting" adjacent figures for special powers, but neither Invisble Woman nor Captain America do any "targeting" for their team-boost special powers. Of course, Cap can't attack someone next to Obsidian with Shield Throw, but that doesn't stop him from giving his allies a +1 boost.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #110  
Old September 30th, 2013, 12:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Looks like he'll be quite the counter to the likes of Invisible Woman and Cap's Avenger bonus. As well as tricky specials such as Doom's trap and War Machine's auto chain gun.

Add on the fact that he can place 3 shadow spaces into your base for extra defense, he definitely makes worth of his points.

Good stuff.
I don't see how he's a counter to Invisible Woman or Captain America... he prevents people from "targeting" adjacent figures for special powers, but neither Invisble Woman nor Captain America do any "targeting" for their team-boost special powers. Of course, Cap can't attack someone next to Obsidian with Shield Throw, but that doesn't stop him from giving his allies a +1 boost.
I guess I was under the impression that since Cap's and Invisible Woman's specials require clear sight, that the Enveloped special power would negate it since all adjacent figures can't be targeted for attacks or specials that require clear sight. The word "target" I was misunderstanding I suppose, didn't realize "targeting" was strictly an offensive term, not defensive as well. I figured that was part of his purpose, to counter tricky defensive setups, by enveloping opponent's figures thus negating clear sight defense bonuses. Oh well.
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  #111  
Old September 30th, 2013, 01:32 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

I suspect they also mean that adjacent figures can't be "chosen" for special powers that require clear sight either, even though they only say "targeted," but that still doesn't affect Cap or Invisible Woman.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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  #112  
Old January 5th, 2014, 09:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

So then, with Intangibility, and all that cleared up. I asked a question a few months back, about Obsidian. Would his Enveloped in Shadows negate Invisible Woman's and Cap's respective bonuses to their team? If I have Obsidian enveloping a figure, that's within 4 clear sight spaces of Invisible Woman, would they still receive the defense bonus?

When I asked this question, I was told it wouldn't negate those, and they'd still get the bonus. But with the ruling of Intangibility negating Pit Trap etc. Why wouldn't Obsidian's negate the bonus? I believe they said the figures aren't being targeted, but to me doesn't that make complete sense? That they would no longer be able to receive said bonus because he's essentially making them unable to be seen by non adjacent figures, even on your own army?
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  #113  
Old January 5th, 2014, 09:22 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

I honestly can't recall the intent one way or another, and it looks like you never got an "official" answer to the initial question.

What do our local rules gurus think? What do other Heroes think?

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  #114  
Old January 5th, 2014, 09:31 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

Well the reasoning why it doesn't cancel them out was that Cap and Invisible Woman aren't "targeting" their teammates for their specials. But my reasoning was that if it's essentially making everyone adjacent to Obsidian have similarities of being Intangible/Invisble, that it'd make sense to me to be a natural counter to team bonuses based on clear sight being required, as he's enveloping them in shadows. So if I can't target opponents that are adjacent to obsidian, which hurts me, why wouldn't the special also make it so opponents can't use clear sight based support on their own teammates as well? With the ruling of Dr. Doom's pit trap not working on an Intangible figure, even though it's not targeting them, it just has a clear sight restriction, why wouldn't the same apply to this scenario with Obsidian? Clear sight is clear sight, I feel the definition of targeting is inconsistent or something, not sure.

Personally, there's nothing that's a direct counter to Invisible Woman and Cap type support, other than throwing figures out of clear sight, so Obsidian being that counter would be welcomed.
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  #115  
Old January 5th, 2014, 09:40 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

My unofficial opinion is that Enveloped figures can't be chosen or targeted for clear sight powers or attacks by non-adjacent figures, whether they are friends or foes. While Intangibility makes it clear that it's only opponents that are affected, Enveloped makes no such distinction.

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  #116  
Old January 5th, 2014, 10:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

I think you guys are probably correct about how I initially intended this to work. I would say that the "targeting" only applies to the attack portion of the clause (which makes sense, as you don't really target for special powers) and thus Invisible Woman's aura (to use an example) would be cancelled out, because it still requires clear sight.

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  #117  
Old January 5th, 2014, 11:01 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

Which makes him a great counter pick, and opens up a good deal of potential for him. Which is always a good thing. Because Invisible Woman can be a pain, especially in the big games I play. I should know, I usually pick her for base defense .
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  #118  
Old January 5th, 2014, 11:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

I agree with the thematic interpretation and that the issue is with the term "targeted" because it has not been used in reference to an aura power. After all, IW is not "targeting" her friendly figures, it's not even her turn.

If that's the way we want to rule, I am in agreement, but then we need to fix the language. We can't just say that "targeted" only applies to the attack portion of the power, because then we are missing a verb for the special power portion--

So maybe something like

ENVELOPED IN SHADOWS
All figures adjacent to Obsidian are considered Enveloped. Enveloped figures cannot be targeted by non-adjacent figures for any attacks and are not in clear sight of any figures or for any special powers that require clear sight. At the end of each round, roll one unblockable attack die against each figure Enveloped by Obsidian.

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  #119  
Old January 5th, 2014, 11:48 PM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

I know you guys have your own standards on several of these things that differ from classic, so take this for what it's worth... but in classic 'scape, Engagement Strike uses the term "targeted" without it being in reference to an attack. So while it doesn't have any special meaning in the context of special powers, the term target does have meaning there.

So IMO the language on the current card is fine. But if you guys want to tighten it up and make sure that target only refers to choosing a figure to attack, by all means do so.

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  #120  
Old January 6th, 2014, 12:18 AM
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Re: The Book of Obsidian

I guess it's just a style thing. "Target" to me implies an active verb, whereas offering an aura bonus seems to be passive, and it occurs on the other figure's turn.

But it is not a deal breaker to me either way. If the consensus is to leave the wording and just FAQ this fairly unique situation, I can live with that.

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