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HeroScape General Discussion General discussions of packaging, terrain, components, etc. If it doesn't fit in any other official category, put it here.


View Poll Results: Which Master Set do you like the best?
Rise of the Valkyrie (1st one) 564 89.52%
Swarm of the Marro (2nd one) 66 10.48%
Voters: 630. You may not vote on this poll

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  #61  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 11:54 AM
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My vote for ROTV was because I value the terrain more then the miniatures. I like the swamp tiles, but I only need 3 mastersets. ROTV I can keep buying because of the terrain. That is what made it better.

If you want perfect you would put commons with all that terrain.
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  #62  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 12:03 PM
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I suppose it's time to drop my opinion.

RotV was great. Balanced and stand alone. Had a good variety of everything, and I did not feel the need to buy more than one. I feel this was the initial intent, and this set did this nicely.

SotM was a good set as well. It did stand alone and the game play was balanced. However, to those familiar with the original set it had some drawbacks.

Land first. It was too theme speciffic for one. No way to mix-up ones terrain. Your choices were swamp and swamp. The swamp did not fit well with the other terrain packs available. Need I mention that there was not enough land tiles in general when compared to the other master set. It had the feeling there was just less in the box for the same price.

Figures were also done in a way that could have been more appealing. I like the heroes vs. squads concept but limiting the squads to one race limits the whole set. Don't get me wrong, I love everything about the marro. I just feel we needed less marro and more other things.

Commons vs Uniques needs to be discussed. I feel a master set should stand alone and not require any muiltiple purchases of it unless one just wants an insane ammount of terrain. The proposed terrain packs should give the community their terrain fix. Having common squads in a master set is encouraging multiple master set purchases that many first time gamers are going to be turned off by. Master sets should be unique only.

I think I've said enough for now.

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  #63  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerofool
I suppose it's time to drop my opinion.

RotV was great. Balanced and stand alone. Had a good variety of everything, and I did not feel the need to buy more than one. I feel this was the initial intent, and this set did this nicely.

SotM was a good set as well. It did stand alone and the game play was balanced. However, to those familiar with the original set it had some drawbacks.

Land first. It was too theme speciffic for one. No way to mix-up ones terrain. Your choices were swamp and swamp. The swamp did not fit well with the other terrain packs available. Need I mention that there was not enough land tiles in general when compared to the other master set. It had the feeling there was just less in the box for the same price.

Figures were also done in a way that could have been more appealing. I like the heroes vs. squads concept but limiting the squads to one race limits the whole set. Don't get me wrong, I love everything about the marro. I just feel we needed less marro and more other things.

Commons vs Uniques needs to be discussed. I feel a master set should stand alone and not require any muiltiple purchases of it unless one just wants an insane ammount of terrain. The proposed terrain packs should give the community their terrain fix. Having common squads in a master set is encouraging multiple master set purchases that many first time gamers are going to be turned off by. Master sets should be unique only.

I think I've said enough for now.
Good points. I think the only thing I would argue about is the commons requiring multiple purchases idea... I think 2 squads of each common was the perfect compromise. Yes, many of us triple or quadruple our commons, but a new player wouldn't feel the need to do so, not until they've seen the power of 3 or 4 squads of 4th Mass or Zombies. THEN they might consider 2 squads of the MS common marro units to be too little. No, I think that was the one thing SotM did correctly.

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  #64  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:05 PM
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In addition to Master Sets, there is one more thing that I think we 'Scapers should look into:

Organized play sets, arv $150

These sets would contain an amount of hexes about equal to 3 ROTV (this is in hexes, it isn't 3 master sets). In addition there would be dice, order markers, and glyphs for up to 12 people. Included would be around 5 squads of the common units that effectively require multiples (Marro Drones, Zombies, Romans, Orcs, ect.), as well as 5 of each GenCon exclusives thus far, for just over 120 figures.

This would be perfect for starting some HS organized play. This set is built for 12 people, and divided among the group would only cost 15.50 per person. This amount of terrain would allow for a decent sized map to be constructed, and combined with the player's individual collections would grant lots of possibilities. (Granted, it isn't Dr. Weirdscaper's collection, but for those of us with smaller collections, it certainly looks good).

The extra common squads would allow for the players to build a common-heavy army, even if their budget wouldn't allow. The commons would stay at the hobby store/wherever the league is based.

The gencon exclusives are in there to be used as prizes for events.

I think this might work, expecially considering my HS collection has only 1 ROTV, 1 SOTM.

Naturally, these sets would only be available to the event coordinators.

Anyone else like this idea?

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  #65  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:06 PM
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I agree with EJ. I have yet to feel the NEED to buy a second SotM, due to the doubling of commons. That said, when time and passion and room and money allow, it's a luxury purchase I'd like to make at some point. If the Master sets sold commons in varieties of one, then I'd feel like I HAD to buy multiples to get any real use out of them at all. The Marro commons in SotM are very playable in numbers of two.
That said, I promote either commons in varities of two or all uniques in Master sets. If you do the former, I think it promotes more multiple Master set purchases. If you do the latter, I say increase the number of huge figures and in the Master sets slighty from RotV and then use the boosters solely on common heroes and squads. This second approach would do a lot to alleviate distribution issues, IMO.

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  #66  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:14 PM
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basically, the original master set (rise of the valkyrie) was bar none the BEST single release so far. i'd guess that 99% of us started playing this game because of that set. why? as stated by many others...

1. it had a huge variety of figures that really got the imagination going.

2. it came with just enough terrain to allow us to start to build really cool maps.

the original master set was PERFECT. any new master set should be identical but with 40 new eclectic unique heroes and squads to maximize the appeal. get people excited about THE GAME first, then try to sell them common squads in booster packs. i'd guess that whatever success HEROSCAPE has enjoyed up to now can be attributed more to a great initial master set than any other single factor!

like many others, as soon as i dumped the set out on the floor in fromt of my friends and started building a map i had decided to immediately run out an buy another set so i could build a bigger map! before the first wave of expansions was released i had bought 10 mastersets and 10 extra sets of sparlkly water (because it had already been replaced by the ugly water and i wanted to always be able to surround my "islands" with lots of water).

despite it's initial cost, the original master set "felt" like a great bargain and truly was a complete came in a box. the marro set feels like an expensive expansion set.

and despite the fact that i wouldnt mind getting a new terrain type (ie desert) i think that any new master set should probably be made up of the basic terrain types only. (water, grass, rock, and a bit of sand) the only change should probably by to flip the 24 hex plate...
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  #67  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:32 PM
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ps... i notice that a lot of you like to see common squads in mastersets and want to see a poll to this effect. i would guess that a poll on this site would skew towards those wanting mulitple commons. but people, we are the converted. we dont need to be enticed to buy more heroscape. we will buy just about anything they make. the master set needs to entice new recruits and if you think back to what it was about the original masterset that got you to pick it up it was the VARIETY!!!! then you went BACK for the TERRAIN!!! right?
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  #68  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caravaggio
ps... i notice that a lot of you like to see common squads in mastersets and want to see a poll to this effect. i would guess that a poll on this site would skew towards those wanting mulitple commons. but people, we are the converted. we dont need to be enticed to buy more heroscape. we will buy just about anything they make. the master set needs to entice new recruits and if you think back to what it was about the original masterset that got you to pick it up it was the VARIETY!!!! then you went BACK for the TERRAIN!!! right?
Let me answer your question with this - imagine if RotV had included 2 squads of Zettian Guards and Tarn Viking Warriors as commons... hmm?

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  #69  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 03:00 PM
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Honestly I could really see both sides of the commons/uniques in a Master set argument. For me, having plenty of terrain already, as much as getting multiple commons in a Masterset is a quick way to get a bunch of commons in my army, the way that would let me save the most money and not get any redundant product would probably be an all unique Master set and the boosters being essentially all packs of commons x2. That said, if the Master set has anything truly revolutionary in terms of terrain or terrain features (which I feel it kind of needs to in order to make the new Master set interesting and worthwhile) then I'll probably want to buy more than one anyway, and having commons in the set would lessen the drawbacks of purchasing more than one set of it.
So, like I said, good arguments on both sides of the fence, as far as I'm concerned. But I'm not a guy who'd really buy more than two Master sets either way, and no more than one for the first few months (with the second coming when I find a great deal).

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  #70  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 03:03 PM
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I mentioned this in the feedback thread, but I'll repeat it here.

Players new to the game should be given a fair snapshot of what the game is like by getting a good assortment of figures and terrain in one set. It makes a good impression, getting so much for comparitively little cost, and makes it much more likely that they will invest into more expansions for the game. If they get a master set that forces them to buy more expansions to REALLY play the game, they will be turned off quickly.

I would be interested to find out what people who started with SotM think of the HeroScape universe as a whole, as opposed to those who started with RotV.
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  #71  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ej
imagine if RotV had included 2 squads of Zettian Guards and Tarn Viking Warriors as commons... hmm?
It doesn't need 2 of the same squads of anything. That's my biggest complaint with SotM. If all the squads in RotV were common rather than unique, however, then half of the figures became beneficial to those buyers that purchase 3 or 4 master sets, yet house rule 1 unique per game, not per player.

If all the squads in RotV were common, and if the LOS blockers were 2 trees and 1 ruin, rather than 2 ruins, that would be a tremendous encouragement to purchase multiple master sets, and a better reward for those that have done so.

I certainly don't need all the ruins I've already got, much less 6 squads of Krav Maga Agents! However, I could always use another 8 or 10 tress ... throw a common squad for each general: krav, vikings, zettian (or marro), samurai, and elves ... now we're talkin'!

All of a sudden, a complete Newbie will find themselves smacked in the face with options after buying just two master sets! Two of the same common squad for every general in the game, enough dice and order markers for 6-8 players, two ruins, and four trees!

HUGE VALUE.
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  #72  
Old January 23rd, 2008, 03:15 PM
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Duplicate Common squads were NEEDED in SotM because of the mechanics of the Hive. They wanted to put out a set that did not REQUIRE new players to buy a new MS. Therefore they had to include commons and duplicates at that.

I would have been very turned off if the first master set used the common squad as a incentive to buy an additional master set. Buying additional master sets should be because of terrain or LOS blockers, not because of commons.

I imagine potential new customers would be turned off by a need to buy additional MS by having only one common. But if you include two commons squads in a MS, you loose too much variety.

Keep commons out of MS.

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