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  #145  
Old March 8th, 2017, 11:06 AM
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Re: Better and Better

Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRaidor View Post
I like the life splatter, but I could support the heart too (straight edges or curvy ones). Not a fan of the drop. Sorry.
I've come around to a stronger preference for the heart, as well. Also, it should be sized in such a manner that it will fit completely on the card.

I think the heart tells the reader instantly what purpose it serves, in a way that the drop does not. It's the difference between "immediately" and "almost immediately," but for the purpose of graphic design and consistently with your other decisions on this card, Xorlof, I think that the immediacy of the heart is preferable.

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  #146  
Old March 8th, 2017, 04:09 PM
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Re: Better and Better

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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRaidor View Post
I like the life splatter, but I could support the heart too (straight edges or curvy ones). Not a fan of the drop. Sorry.
I've come around to a stronger preference for the heart, as well. Also, it should be sized in such a manner that it will fit completely on the card.

I think the heart tells the reader instantly what purpose it serves, in a way that the drop does not. It's the difference between "immediately" and "almost immediately," but for the purpose of graphic design and consistently with your other decisions on this card, Xorlof, I think that the immediacy of the heart is preferable.
I, too, have come around to Heart Icon = best Icon. However, I disagree with D_S about resizing it so that it fits completely on the card. Cutting off the edges of these icons has become a common theme across the card, allowing the icons themselves to be sized larger while maximixing the usable area for the stat number inside them. It's a good approach.

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  #147  
Old March 8th, 2017, 04:18 PM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

I don't know. I don't think incomplete images should be a desirable motif. If it's possible to shrink them all down so they're complete, I'd be curious to see that; if not, I'd still rather the heart be complete on top.

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  #148  
Old March 8th, 2017, 04:40 PM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I don't know. I don't think incomplete images should be a desirable motif. If it's possible to shrink them all down so they're complete, I'd be curious to see that; if not, I'd still rather the heart be complete on top.
Of course it's possible, but it's always going to be a trade-off. The parts of the icons that are cut off are too narrow or irregular to support fitting text within them. So there are a number of options:
  1. Have some less useful bits of the icons cut off by the edge of the card
  2. Push the icons fully onto the card, and simply reduce the space available for other things (power text, figure images, etc) commensurately.
  3. Puth the icons fully onto the card, and shrink them down. Then for the numbers on the icons, either:
    1. Shrink their font down as well so they still fit in the usable area
    2. Leave their font similarly sized, but allow the numbers to spill over the edges of the icons.

I consider the slight cut-off of the edges of the icons to be easily the least bad option. The reason is simple: these icons are still easily identified when cut off on the edge, which is their purpose. Shrinking them would not improve their identifiability or their legibility. The only one that gives me any pause whatsoever is the skull, which is a little easier for your eye to grab when you see more of the teeth. But the skull and shield are so HS-iconic that they are pretty clearly the least of our worries when it comes to identification.

When it comes to the heart, the heart becomes 0% more identifiable if you slide it over to the left.

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  #149  
Old March 8th, 2017, 04:47 PM
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Re: Better and Better

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I'd lean towards a Marvel/DC/etc symbol there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordRaidor View Post
As for the 'general' symbol on supers, I agree it would be best to avoid 'team' or 'faction' icons, in favor of a simple license nod. Marvel/DC/DarkHorse/etc. symbol would be grand, methinks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
As for the Dr Doom symbol and Amazo symbol. I'd probably go with Marvel, DC, and such for icons in that place. I once thought about doing team symbols (X-Men, Avengers, Justice League) but it got to complicated with the different characters at different times being parts of multiple teams. Plus anytime something changes in the future I'd have to update. So I dropped it and instead have a few sheets printed in my card binder for thematic team rosters.
Bummer. I thought (aside from the fact that the Amaz-o symbol is Lame-o) that you would like the symbols. There's so much neat iconography in superheroes. I bet many of you could guess at least a few of the characters these symbols are meant to represent (all Marvel):



Answers in spoiler:
Spoiler Alert!

If we do put comic book company logos up there, instead of character symbols, we'll have to deal with the fact that they're not of an even width and that space is sort of designed for a roughly squarish thing there. DC is fine, Marvel not so much unless we use the older "Marvel Comics" logo. I guess I could put them in the hex. (?)

Do you guys actually do anything with Marvel vs DC, etc in Heroscape? That's a real question--maybe it matters to some of you, and I just don't know that. I get that a symbol representing the superhero wouldn't be something you would do anything with either (except perhaps putting it on tokens associated with the card), but at least is is meant to be representative of the thing the card is about. And, by and large, they're already designed for us.

I agree that team affiliation would be a mistake--there's too much moving around.

-----

Coin vs. text as discussed by @dok , @Dad_Scaper : I will see if I can come up with some alternate coin symbol as suggested, dok--I really will--but for now I think it is a no-go, at least there (I did try the cutting-it-off suggestion too, btw). I will give it another go to the left or right of hitzone, though as both you and Dad_Scaper suggested.

One thought that perhaps you'd be interested in is putting LIFE to the left of MOVE and then putting POINTS where LIFE is. The coin would fit up there very well, I think.

@LordRaidor brought up the visibility of the text recently and expressed approval of that last draft, as did others, so I think we've got the text-only option nailed (bold and with a "P" instead of the word points).

-----

It looks like the tide has turned and heart wins the day for life representation. Nobody spoke against it and most picked it as their favorite.

-----

Sounds like keeping personality as a separate item is what's going to happen based on no advocates stepping forward on the other option. Both options are currently tie in my book.

-----

I will keep the smaller icon variant in the mix based on the latest feedback. I agree with dok the the actual transition shape to the bump could be improved and his suggestion for it sounds good. These card prototypes are done in Word so I don't think that shape will be an option, but the final templates that come from this process will be SVG files (and perhaps InDesign files) openable in a variety of programs. SVG can certainly handle the more elaborate shape. I've got it on a list of final tweaks should we go the smaller icon route in the end.

-----

Yeah, the weird stuff at the end of that last post was...weird. I didn't know if it would spark any new thoughts in your collective brains though.

-----

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
PM me your email address and I'll send you what I have for symbols and such.
On it's way...


EDIT: This post was composed over a period of time and I didn't see the last two three posts in the thread made in the past hour. I didn't ignore them; I just didn't see them until now.

There is nothing more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity. --MLK
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  #150  
Old March 8th, 2017, 05:22 PM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

Been following this thread for a while. Just like to comment on the supers stuff that when playing comic heroes, I tend to do all-Marvel or all-DC armies. Making that distinction prominent on the card would be helpful for that sort of thing (although alternatively, keeping that symbol off the card might help me break that sort-of-bad habit).
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  #151  
Old March 8th, 2017, 06:03 PM
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Re: Better and Better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorlof View Post
Do you guys actually do anything with Marvel vs DC, etc in Heroscape? That's a real question--maybe it matters to some of you, and I just don't know that. I get that a symbol representing the superhero wouldn't be something you would do anything with either (except perhaps putting it on tokens associated with the card), but at least is is meant to be representative of the thing the card is about. And, by and large, they're already designed for us.
We did run one online event where armies were restricted by comic universe, kind of like general wars. That said, they have zero in-game mechanical effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorlof View Post
One thought that perhaps you'd be interested in is putting LIFE to the left of MOVE and then putting POINTS where LIFE is. The coin would fit up there very well, I think.
Definitely interested to see that, yes (along with options that put the coin on the bottom bar). I think it makes a lot of sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorlof View Post
@LordRaidor brought up the visibility of the text recently and expressed approval of that last draft, as did others, so I think we've got the text-only option nailed (bold and with a "P" instead of the word points).
Agreed - not totally sold on the location right above the hitzones, though.

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  #152  
Old March 8th, 2017, 07:50 PM
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Re: Better and Better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorlof View Post
Bummer. I thought (aside from the fact that the Amaz-o symbol is Lame-o) that you would like the symbols. There's so much neat iconography in superheroes. I bet many of you could guess at least a few of the characters these symbols are meant to represent (all Marvel):

Are those from DiceMasters? If so there would be DC versions as well.

I like the icons but it may be difficult for some of the more obscure ones. Also there are about 60 or so non Marvel/DC C3G figures that may be harder to iconize.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorlof View Post
Do you guys actually do anything with Marvel vs DC, etc in Heroscape? That's a real question--maybe it matters to some of you, and I just don't know that. I get that a symbol representing the superhero wouldn't be something you would do anything with either (except perhaps putting it on tokens associated with the card), but at least is is meant to be representative of the thing the card is about. And, by and large, they're already designed for us.
No powers use the Marvel/DC designation. Though it would have made some things easier.

Using them on the markers wouldn't always work either since some figures use the same markers.

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It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #153  
Old March 12th, 2017, 02:55 PM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

@japes , yep, that is from the very first Dice Masters set. Dice Masters has over 300 DC, D&D, TMNT (and Yu-Gi-Oh) symbols for it's more than 2000 available cards.

@dok --OK, I will try the "points instead of life" in the U-R corner option.

I've started looking ahead to the logistics of getting these cards printed. The companies that print playing cards usually require you to order either a full deck (54 cards), or full sheets (18 cards) at a time. Those that let you order 18 at a time sometimes give a discount for orders of 54.

If we work towards bundling these cards in a way to satisfy the most restrictive companies--54 cards at a time--that will work with all of the companies. There are 218 official cards, so 4 decks (216 cards) should cover most of them. But how to divide them up in the most helpful way? If you think about this for a while you find trade offs no matter what you do.

This is the best I've come up with tries to keep waves and sets together and works forward somewhat chronologically:

DECK 1 - Master sets plus misc: RotV, SotM, BftU, Marvel, Flagbearer's, Orms. 54 of 54 cards used.

DECK 2 - Early waves plus misc: Wave 1, 2, 3, 4, Raknar's, Heroes/Squads that came with terrain expansions. 54 of 54 cards used.

DECK 3 - Middle waves: Wave 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. 54 of 54 cards used.

DECK 4 - Late waves plus misc: Wave 10 (excluding wave 5 re-releases), 11, 12, 13, Aquilla's, Skahen. 54 of 54 cards used.

Not allocated in decks 1-4: Woo, Sam Brown. Perhaps put these two on the backs of less commonly used units (DW7K?, Hatamoto Taro?)

For the completionists (me!), we can press onward beyond 4 decks. These decks are less thought out:
Spoiler Alert!

I haven't worked with arranging C3V/SoV and C3G sets yet. C3V/SoV feels like a strictly chronological arrangement of C3V might be best, not splitting waves. Then pad the ends of decks with SoV, also chronologically, to get to 54 cards.

Maybe strictly chronological for C3G unless something like 3 series of decks (Marvel, DC, Other) would be better. I'm sure @japes has put some thought into this.

Anyone have suggestions with regards to deck arrangements?

I've included the card counts for different sets in the spoiler for anyone wanting to try making better arrangements:
Spoiler Alert!

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Last edited by Xorlof; March 12th, 2017 at 04:29 PM.
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  #154  
Old March 13th, 2017, 11:48 AM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

In case it's not clear, I'm totally on board to chip in to get a print run going.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xorlof View Post
I will try the "points instead of life" in the U-R corner option.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that this is the correct call. Putting life on the bottom bar with the other four game-relevant stats means that you can look in one place for all the in-game data. Meanwhile, cost is in the corner, useful for those who use cards to draft or who sort their cards by cost, and not mixed in with the other in-game data.

I'd go so far as to say that even if you want to leave points as text-only, U-R corner is probably still the best spot for it, with life going down to bottom left.

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  #155  
Old March 13th, 2017, 01:05 PM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

UR would be cool to spread a 'hand' of cards and be able to scan the points.
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  #156  
Old March 13th, 2017, 09:51 PM
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Re: Smurf along with me: la la la-la la la!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
In case it's not clear, I'm totally on board to chip in to get a print run going.
The more I think about it the more convinced I am that this is the correct call. Putting life on the bottom bar with the other four game-relevant stats means that you can look in one place for all the in-game data. Meanwhile, cost is in the corner, useful for those who use cards to draft or who sort their cards by cost, and not mixed in with the other in-game data.

I'd go so far as to say that even if you want to leave points as text-only, U-R corner is probably still the best spot for it, with life going down to bottom left.
Agree 100%

Your custom probably has too much Defense.

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