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  #2305  
Old May 9th, 2018, 08:19 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Where does Sonlen’s baby dragon come from? In theory there could be dragons from Feylund if it’s homeworld was never specified.

But I suppose Grimnak’s T-Rex could also be from Marr with that logic.

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  #2306  
Old May 9th, 2018, 08:34 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Where does Sonlen’s baby dragon come from? In theory there could be dragons from Feylund if it’s homeworld was never specified.

But I suppose Grimnak’s T-Rex could also be from Marr with that logic.
Right, I'm silly and forgot about Sonlen's little guy. Thanks for bringing that up. That makes it a little better, but not enough for me to buy that a Feylundian elf could ride an Icarian dragon any more than a DnD elf could.

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  #2307  
Old May 9th, 2018, 08:53 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
I kind of like the theme (hate the Warlord thing). Maybe only add to the Move and defense indicating that the rider is a second set of eyes?

Maybe have the dragon take a turn off the rider (this would remove any issue with greenscales) Also the Bonus could be dependent on there being Order Markers on the rider's card?

Dragon Rider:
After revealing an order marker on this card instead of taking a turn with Eltris, you may take a turn with the chosen Dragon. During that turn the dragon may move one additional space and after moving the Dragon you may place Eltris adjacent to the Dragon.

Simple and now you take a risk in loosing Order Markers when Eltris dies.
I like the idea of simplifying "Dragon Rider" (although placing Order Markers on Eltris wouldn't change anything with Greenscales right now, besides making the management a little easier for taking turns with her instead), but I feel like this accomplishes another purpose in adding movement instead of increasing attack and defense. While likely more balanced (except for potentially Zelrig) overall, increasing speed doesn't jell as well with me as increasing combat strength, and I'm not overly fond of boosting Movement and Defense instead of just Attack and Defense.

Thank you for the well-thought out power, though! If Order Marker management turns out to be too big of a problem, I'll definitely consider taking turns with the dragon through Eltris instead with "Passenger."

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
See, Romans bonding with any Warlord feels fine - They're following the Warlord which makes sense, not the Warlord following them. And Death Knights are in a similar boat, although the theme of bonding with any Relentless Hero isn't great thematically and is something I would take an issue with if someone tried to pass it through the SoV. Greenscales/MacDirks are in a similar boat. They're peons who will follow whoever is the biggest lizard/dude around. Dragons are another story. Again, we're talking kings, queens, and emperors regarded as deities, and it feels off to have them allow a stranger ride them when there's nothing that's suggested them as mounts.
I fail to see how Romans following any Warlord makes thematic sense (outside of the original Utgar/Einar alliance), especially considering that I've seen plenty of armies with them following and protecting alien/undead hybrids as if they were their esteemed leaders. Sure, you can reason that Ne-Gok-Sa is fine with leading any soldiers, not just his own, but why are the Romans suddenly willing to lay down their lives for this strange creature that they've never met before? Part of the joy in HeroScape to me is seeing these disparate armies come together with interesting synergies, so it doesn't bother me very much, but I'm honestly surprised that Eltris would bother you if other cross-planet synergies don't.

As for the Greenscales and MacDirks, I've always viewed their "choose one for the entire game" powers as being indicative of a stronger bond than the usual bonding, one that can't be replaced if the chosen unit dies. I think this is an important distinction: Eltris isn't just some stranger using Nilfheim as a mount, she's an Elf who has earned his respect and come to help him be even more ferocious. Mechanically, she has a very passive role of just following the dragon around and doing her best to help him, not ordering him around like Ne-Gok-Sa and the Romans.

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Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Sure, you can say she made friends with them after coming to Valhalla, but I think it's too much of a leap to say that she has a synergistic bond with any dragon she meets that will break her heart so much she takes damage when she dies. Cyprien and Sonya have been a couple for who knows how long before they were summoned to Valhalla. Again, if you want to bring bios into it, "Lady Esenwein has sworn her allegiance and her life to Cyprien and Cyprien alone." That justifies things a lot more than "Eltris came to Valhalla, thought dragons were cool, and hopped on each one she met, but when it died a part of her died too."
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how strong the relationships between units who meet on Valhalla can become, I guess. I see nothing wrong with strong friendships being made between characters from other worlds like Alexander and Raelin, and I think it's bound to happen during the downtime between wars.

I don't think that it's really fair to compare bios when one doesn't currently exist (especially one intentionally written poorly). I have every intention of writing a good bio for her when the time comes (I just intend to leave that until the end, in case things like the sculpt or class have to change), and I still believe that it can provide adequate explanation for her bond with a dragon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Also, I'm even stronger against her being from Feylund, if that's where you're trying to go with her. There aren't dragons on Feylund, and that makes it even harder to sell your theme, which is already shaky at best.
Feylund was the original planet that I posted, but honestly I had just forgotten that D&D worlds were considered part of the HeroScape canon. The planet holds no personal weight to me in this instance (Feylund is just linked to Elves in my mind), and I have absolutely no qualms with changing it to one of the D&D planets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
I'm not against cross-synergies, I think they're fun and cool, but they need to be done right. While I think your concept has some good potential, the card has not sat well with me since I looked it over, and I'm bringing it up now as a heads up before you get to the point where you want to submit her.
I do appreciate your criticisms and honest feedback. We all draw lines at different places and view different things as being unthematic, so it's nice to get another opinion. If Confrontation wasn't so rare and hadn't already set the precedent for what an Icarian should look like, I might look into making her an Icarian instead, although I don't think that would instantly make everything better.

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Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
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Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
I 100% agree that it's ok for some of the bonding options (Braxas, for instance) to be unlikely partners for a farmhand who befriended a dragon. That's part of what makes Heroscape special, is that two thematic units can, by virtue of the mechanics, be an unlikely pair.
The problem I have is that all of the dragons are an "unlikely pair" for her. They're all either from Icaria where they were regarded as "godlike creatures," and thus wouldn't stoop to being someone's mount, or they're dragons who would sooner eat an elf than let her ride. It's possible that it wouldn't be as bad if there were even one good thematic option, but none of them fit.
Again, I don't view the bond between a dragon and its rider as being a mere mount, especially when the dragons are so highly revered. That said, we have instances of Icarian dragons respecting their subjects at least somewhat (such as in the case of Zelrig), and I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that an Elf could have won their friendship nor that they would be fine with carrying her, especially when they can be paired with dragon-slaying cultists in the same army. If Eltris provides a clear benefit to them, then I don't see why they would absolutely refuse to carry her with them.

Looking at the Dragon Ally candidates that we currently have in the game, we have the personalities Wild, Menacing, Valiant, Ferocious, Fearless, Tricky, Precise, and Disciplined. None of those imply prideful or haughty to me, so the idea of them refusing help on mere principle alone (especially when that help is from a close and trusted ally) seems a little odd.

As for the evil D&D dragons, I honestly know very little about that universe and its creatures, but it reminds me a little of the How to Train Your Dragon movie, wherein Vikings eventually become friends with their sworn enemies. Sure, it's a completely different story and world, but I think part of the appeal of a good Dragon Rider story is seeing two very apparently different individuals bond and become much closer to the point of friendship.
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  #2308  
Old May 10th, 2018, 12:38 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
As for the evil D&D dragons, I honestly know very little about that universe and its creatures,
Actually, D&D has both good and evil dragons.

The chromatic dragons are evil: Red, White, Black, Green, Blue

The metallic dragons are good: Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass, Copper
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  #2309  
Old May 10th, 2018, 12:49 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
As for the evil D&D dragons, I honestly know very little about that universe and its creatures,
Actually, D&D has both good and evil dragons.

The chromatic dragons are evil: Red, White, Black, Green, Blue

The metallic dragons are good: Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass, Copper
I see, thanks for the info. It's interesting to see how that contrasts with the HeroScape form of dragons, especially since we basically only have the chromatic style of dragon on Icaria and have yet to see a metallic one as far as I'm aware.
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  #2310  
Old May 11th, 2018, 12:56 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I fail to see how Romans following any Warlord makes thematic sense (outside of the original Utgar/Einar alliance), especially considering that I've seen plenty of armies with them following and protecting alien/undead hybrids as if they were their esteemed leaders. Sure, you can reason that Ne-Gok-Sa is fine with leading any soldiers, not just his own, but why are the Romans suddenly willing to lay down their lives for this strange creature that they've never met before? Part of the joy in HeroScape to me is seeing these disparate armies come together with interesting synergies, so it doesn't bother me very much, but I'm honestly surprised that Eltris would bother you if other cross-planet synergies don't.
I'm completely agreed on the one of the most fun things in Heroscape is seeing how armies can come together across time and space and work well through synergies and such. But it also needs to make sense. Romans followed warlords on Earth, so if they meet a similar leader on Valhalla, it makes sense that they will follow them, even if they're a big scary alien (in fact, they may be even more inclined to follow a big scary alien warlord - it has the same kind of leadership and is potentially scarier than their original leader). It also makes sense for 4th to be able to maintain their defense boost when there's a big green dragon on the field because it displays the same valiant personality that they hold important. It also helps that these guys are common and can be working with any number of leaders because there are supposedly more of them - not all contained in one army.

Thus it seems backwards to me for a deified dragon to let some elf ride it. Yes, it protects its people, but it's still deified (and elves aren't its people). It makes sense that it will let more subjects work for them, even if they are small lizards from another planet, but not that they'll form a sudden partnership with an elf. The fact that the nature of the Heartbreak power suggests an even closer bond makes it worse as both figures are unique, and yet apparently Eltris can have that bond with anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
We'll just have to agree to disagree on how strong the relationships between units who meet on Valhalla can become, I guess. I see nothing wrong with strong friendships being made between characters from other worlds like Alexander and Raelin, and I think it's bound to happen during the downtime between wars.
Sure, but we don't have Alexander/Raelin bonding (which would still be more reasonable than this, IMO). I think it's a mistake to infer that any two characters can form a bond strong enough during downtime for it to play in mechanically, especially when those two characters are so opposed (king/I want a ride).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I don't think that it's really fair to compare bios when one doesn't currently exist (especially one intentionally written poorly). I have every intention of writing a good bio for her when the time comes (I just intend to leave that until the end, in case things like the sculpt or class have to change), and I still believe that it can provide adequate explanation for her bond with a dragon.
I wasn't trying to compare written bios with an unwritten one, I was just using pre-existing canon to demonstrate the points I'm trying to make and why I feel the way I do. If you want to explain her bond with a dragon, then do it, I'd be more supportive of it (depending, of course, on how it's implemented), but not with every dragon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
If Eltris provides a clear benefit to them, then I don't see why they would absolutely refuse to carry her with them.
Here we get into how the theme translates into mechanics. If that deified dragon is already one of the strongest dudes around, I don't see how lugging around another character for a small attack and defense boost translates into them looking at an elf and saying "Yeah, get on" instead of "Nah, these lizards already worship me, get a ride somewhere else."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Looking at the Dragon Ally candidates that we currently have in the game, we have the personalities Wild, Menacing, Valiant, Ferocious, Fearless, Tricky, Precise, and Disciplined. None of those imply prideful or haughty to me, so the idea of them refusing help on mere principle alone (especially when that help is from a close and trusted ally) seems a little odd.
I don't understand how an elf from another planet (and general, except for Charos) is a "close and trusted ally" to a deified dragon.

Sure, but for class we have King, Queen, and Emperor which definitely disagree with the theme. Prince could be sold, and maybe Beast and Young, but those are all Utgar/Valkrill who, again, I don't see letting a tasty snack ride them (and sure, it's a game not a simulation, but you need a good reason for the synergy in the first place which I'm not seeing). Quahon as a Predator for Aquilla is the closest bet, but at that point I'd still prefer specific Quahon synergy because nothing else makes sense (and Quahon needs that synergy less than most other dragons, which doesn't help).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
As for the evil D&D dragons, I honestly know very little about that universe and its creatures, but it reminds me a little of the How to Train Your Dragon movie, wherein Vikings eventually become friends with their sworn enemies. Sure, it's a completely different story and world, but I think part of the appeal of a good Dragon Rider story is seeing two very apparently different individuals bond and become much closer to the point of friendship.
Then tell that story! I'd love to see that story of two different individuals bonding and coming closer in the game, but that's not how it's coming across. Right now it's one individual being able to make friends with any individual, even if that individual was considered a god in his hometown. Again, if she had an actual dragon partner and they had actual, dynamic interactions, I would be completely on board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
If Confrontation wasn't so rare and hadn't already set the precedent for what an Icarian should look like, I might look into making her an Icarian instead, although I don't think that would instantly make everything better.
While I don't know that I would instantly be on board with an Icarian dragon rider working with all dragons (I would still prefer a specific partner), it would be a lot stronger of a sell if the miniature situation worked out. Being an Icarian would suggest she had experience working with dragons of that status and did actually have something to offer them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I do appreciate your criticisms and honest feedback. We all draw lines at different places and view different things as being unthematic, so it's nice to get another opinion.
I'm glad to hear your appreciative of it, and although I disagree with the figure I am happy to see that you've thought things out on your end, and that you're working hard on offering something unique to the game. I feel that I'm fairly easy going theme-wise for the most part, especially since I'm not the creator and demanding that things be done "my way" is just silly, but this figure has pressed a lot of my boundaries canon-wise, so I've been a lot more vocal against it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Actually, D&D has both good and evil dragons.

The chromatic dragons are evil: Red, White, Black, Green, Blue

The metallic dragons are good: Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass, Copper
I see, thanks for the info. It's interesting to see how that contrasts with the HeroScape form of dragons, especially since we basically only have the chromatic style of dragon on Icaria and have yet to see a metallic one as far as I'm aware.
On a different note from the rest of my post, and just for information's sake, that evil/good alliance is for dragons from Toril, not Eberron, IIRC (which is why the wyrmlings aren't Utgar/Valkrill). I'm not sure if there are metallic dragons on Icaria (it's not DnD), but it would be interesting to see for sure.

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  #2311  
Old May 11th, 2018, 01:55 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I have to disagree with Bigga on this one. I like it that Eltris can pair up with any dragon, and I think any attempts to limit that for the sake of theme will cut into the unit's simplicity.
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  #2312  
Old May 11th, 2018, 02:10 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

For what it's worth, I am quite firmly in Camp Scytale on this point. Which I suppose could be inferred from my earlier posts, but now I've said it plainly. I love this theme and I do not think you improve upon the implementation by attempting to shackle it to some subset of dragons, or reading lore so closely that the fun is sucked out of this clever idea.

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  #2313  
Old May 11th, 2018, 02:22 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

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For what it's worth, I am quite firmly in Camp Scytale on this point. Which I suppose could be inferred from my earlier posts, but now I've said it plainly. I love this theme and I do not think you improve upon the implementation by attempting to shackle it to some subset of dragons, or reading lore so closely that the fun is sucked out of this clever idea.
I agree 100% here. In heroscape, people can draft Raelin w/Stingers, or any other combination. I don't see a reason why you need to limit it to "Good" dragons.

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  #2314  
Old May 11th, 2018, 04:54 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

@Astroking112
I think Eltris is brilliant. I love the idea and how you've implemented it.

There have been a number of comments about the name of her last special. I will say, the name "Eternal Heartbreak" or even "Heartbreak" is a touch strange to me because it sounds like Eltris and the dragon are in love with each other... I think I might lean towards something simple like "Dismounted" or "Grounded" or something like that as a potential name.

It's also been suggested that the wounds she takes be reduced to two (I might even suggest reducing it to 1). After her dragon buddy goes down, she'd probably go down real fast too, and I don't think she needs to essentially die as soon as the dragon goes down.

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  #2315  
Old May 12th, 2018, 01:45 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Romans followed warlords on Earth, so if they meet a similar leader on Valhalla, it makes sense that they will follow them, even if they're a big scary alien (in fact, they may be even more inclined to follow a big scary alien warlord - it has the same kind of leadership and is potentially scarier than their original leader). It also makes sense for 4th to be able to maintain their defense boost when there's a big green dragon on the field because it displays the same valiant personality that they hold important. It also helps that these guys are common and can be working with any number of leaders because there are supposedly more of them - not all contained in one army.

Thus it seems backwards to me for a deified dragon to let some elf ride it. Yes, it protects its people, but it's still deified (and elves aren't its people). It makes sense that it will let more subjects work for them, even if they are small lizards from another planet, but not that they'll form a sudden partnership with an elf. The fact that the nature of the Heartbreak power suggests an even closer bond makes it worse as both figures are unique, and yet apparently Eltris can have that bond with anyone.
I still personally find Romans being willing to follow Me-Burq-Sa just as easily as following Marcus Decimus Gallus stranger than a dragon willing to work with an Elf, but I digress.

It seems to me like a large part of what breaks the theme for you is combining a Heartbreak power with a "choose your bond" power, which I think is fair. I can see how that can be jarring, especially when strewing together multiple games as part of a narrative or campaign. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Scytale: having the freedom to choose your dragon is integral to this unit, and I believe that the positives outweigh the negatives.

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Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Sure, but we don't have Alexander/Raelin bonding (which would still be more reasonable than this, IMO). I think it's a mistake to infer that any two characters can form a bond strong enough during downtime for it to play in mechanically, especially when those two characters are so opposed (king/I want a ride).
I'm not aware of any specific timeframes given for the war on Valhalla (and even then, individual battles could be set at any point), but I again find it perfectly reasonable for two characters to bond during the war, even if initially as different as night and day. Maybe I just play too many games.

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Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
I wasn't trying to compare written bios with an unwritten one, I was just using pre-existing canon to demonstrate the points I'm trying to make and why I feel the way I do. If you want to explain her bond with a dragon, then do it, I'd be more supportive of it (depending, of course, on how it's implemented), but not with every dragon.
This is actually why I went with the "choose one at the start of the game" route instead of allowing Passenger/Dragon Rider to work with any dragons like normal bonding-ish powers. To me, this implies that the bond is singular with a specific dragon, despite the fact that the player chose it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
Here we get into how the theme translates into mechanics. If that deified dragon is already one of the strongest dudes around, I don't see how lugging around another character for a small attack and defense boost translates into them looking at an elf and saying "Yeah, get on" instead of "Nah, these lizards already worship me, get a ride somewhere else."

I don't understand how an elf from another planet (and general, except for Charos) is a "close and trusted ally" to a deified dragon.

Sure, but for class we have King, Queen, and Emperor which definitely disagree with the theme. Prince could be sold, and maybe Beast and Young, but those are all Utgar/Valkrill who, again, I don't see letting a tasty snack ride them (and sure, it's a game not a simulation, but you need a good reason for the synergy in the first place which I'm not seeing). Quahon as a Predator for Aquilla is the closest bet, but at that point I'd still prefer specific Quahon synergy because nothing else makes sense (and Quahon needs that synergy less than most other dragons, which doesn't help).
It might just be my perception, but I think it'd be fairly arrogant to ignore help when it's offered, even if the dragon is confident that it won't need it. Every little wound blocked saves them some headache later on, if nothing else.

The "close and trusted ally" goes hand in hand with the idea of the dragon rider forming a bond with their Dragon Ally at some point in the war. I've personally never paid a ton of heed to general allegiances (at least to the point of intentionally disrupting synergies), especially since we know that the generals make alliances when they see fit. Ullar's admittedly experienced less changes of partners than Einar or Vydar, but nearly every unit in the game is pretty much fine with working with another general's army.

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Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
While I don't know that I would instantly be on board with an Icarian dragon rider working with all dragons (I would still prefer a specific partner), it would be a lot stronger of a sell if the miniature situation worked out. Being an Icarian would suggest she had experience working with dragons of that status and did actually have something to offer them.
Honestly, as a recent Nhah Scirh Cultist enthusiast, I'm pretty sad at their rarity and the resulting unlikelihood of seeing future Icarians. I hadn't considered them as a race for a dragon rider before settling on Eltris, but the thought was certainly interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
I'm glad to hear your appreciative of it, and although I disagree with the figure I am happy to see that you've thought things out on your end, and that you're working hard on offering something unique to the game. I feel that I'm fairly easy going theme-wise for the most part, especially since I'm not the creator and demanding that things be done "my way" is just silly, but this figure has pressed a lot of my boundaries canon-wise, so I've been a lot more vocal against it.
I'm definitely glad to receive all feedback, whether positive or critical! I also don't take any offense when people don't like some aspect of my customs, especially when they can back it up with solid logic like you have. I'm a sucker for stories myself, so there have been quite a few figures that I dislike for how they fit into the canon, and I understand the sentiment.

I doubt that I'll be able to change her role so significantly without compromising my concept for the unit, but I still appreciate your thoughts on why she doesn't fit all the same. I hope that she can convince you of her place when she's ready for submission.

Also, thanks for the support to @Scytale , @Dad_Scaper , and @Kinseth . I appreciate all of your thoughts on the matter and reassurances on the theme and implementation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog View Post
On a different note from the rest of my post, and just for information's sake, that evil/good alliance is for dragons from Toril, not Eberron, IIRC (which is why the wyrmlings aren't Utgar/Valkrill). I'm not sure if there are metallic dragons on Icaria (it's not DnD), but it would be interesting to see for sure.
Thanks for the clarification. I was aware that there were two D&D planets from the Books, but I never actually knew any differences between them.

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Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
@Astroking112
I think Eltris is brilliant. I love the idea and how you've implemented it.

There have been a number of comments about the name of her last special. I will say, the name "Eternal Heartbreak" or even "Heartbreak" is a touch strange to me because it sounds like Eltris and the dragon are in love with each other... I think I might lean towards something simple like "Dismounted" or "Grounded" or something like that as a potential name.

It's also been suggested that the wounds she takes be reduced to two (I might even suggest reducing it to 1). After her dragon buddy goes down, she'd probably go down real fast too, and I don't think she needs to essentially die as soon as the dragon goes down.
Thanks for the feedback! I see how Heartbreak has a tad awkward connotation in this context, but I'm somewhat fond of the callback to Sonya's power. Out of curiosity, do you think that "Rider's Heartbreak" would still feel strange?

I'm debating over still beginning the wounds at 3 since most people seem to think that's excessive, but in a strange way, I almost see it as a benefit to Eltris. By incentivizing the enemy to hit the dragon instead (which almost certainly has a higher defense), her benefit will be felt for longer and she won't be quite as squishy. Of course, that's all just theoryscaping, and I could be totally wrong in that regard.

If I do drop the number, it'd probably be to 2 so that it's still dangerous but not absolutely crippling to her. It's a good point that she loses a defense die when her Dragon Ally dies, so perhaps that will be enough of an incentive to keep the decision of attacking the dragon or the rider interesting.
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Old May 12th, 2018, 03:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flash_19 View Post
@Astroking112
I think Eltris is brilliant. I love the idea and how you've implemented it.

There have been a number of comments about the name of her last special. I will say, the name "Eternal Heartbreak" or even "Heartbreak" is a touch strange to me because it sounds like Eltris and the dragon are in love with each other... I think I might lean towards something simple like "Dismounted" or "Grounded" or something like that as a potential name.

It's also been suggested that the wounds she takes be reduced to two (I might even suggest reducing it to 1). After her dragon buddy goes down, she'd probably go down real fast too, and I don't think she needs to essentially die as soon as the dragon goes down.
Thanks for the feedback! I see how Heartbreak has a tad awkward connotation in this context, but I'm somewhat fond of the callback to Sonya's power. Out of curiosity, do you think that "Rider's Heartbreak" would still feel strange?
That actually does sound better to me. Maybe something like "Rider's Anguish" could also convey what you're going for. But , even if you stick with "Heartbreak" or "Eternal Heartbreak", it wouldn't stop me from playing with the unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I'm debating over still beginning the wounds at 3 since most people seem to think that's excessive, but in a strange way, I almost see it as a benefit to Eltris. By incentivizing the enemy to hit the dragon instead (which almost certainly has a higher defense), her benefit will be felt for longer and she won't be quite as squishy. Of course, that's all just theoryscaping, and I could be totally wrong in that regard.

If I do drop the number, it'd probably be to 2 so that it's still dangerous but not absolutely crippling to her. It's a good point that she loses a defense die when her Dragon Ally dies, so perhaps that will be enough of an incentive to keep the decision of attacking the dragon or the rider interesting.
That is an interesting point... It would definitely depend on which dragon was paired with Eltris and what units are being used to attack them with...

Perhaps I'm thinking too much from a tournament perspective. If I am going to invest all the points in the dragon and a figure to support that dragon, I want to feel like I'm getting the mileage out of it. Losing a dragon in a game is already a huge blow, and so essentially automatically losing another figure at the same time could be frustrating. But then you'd know better based on playtesting. And obviously Eltris is going to extend the survivability of the dragon.... So that would hopefully make up for the bigger loss.

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