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Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment |
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#2305
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Where does Sonlen’s baby dragon come from? In theory there could be dragons from Feylund if it’s homeworld was never specified.
But I suppose Grimnak’s T-Rex could also be from Marr with that logic. My customs. NE Ohio Tourney - TBA SW Ohio Tourney - NHSD 550 points AotV - Colliding the minis of AotP with the world of HS. |
#2306
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
Right, I'm silly and forgot about Sonlen's little guy. Thanks for bringing that up. That makes it a little better, but not enough for me to buy that a Feylundian elf could ride an Icarian dragon any more than a DnD elf could.
Monthly Utah Tournaments in SLC!!
Maps | Customs | Battle Reports 10 Points Under Videos "I'll save myself some time and say I pretty much 100% agree with Bigga" ~Flash_19 |
#2307
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Thank you for the well-thought out power, though! If Order Marker management turns out to be too big of a problem, I'll definitely consider taking turns with the dragon through Eltris instead with "Passenger." Quote:
As for the Greenscales and MacDirks, I've always viewed their "choose one for the entire game" powers as being indicative of a stronger bond than the usual bonding, one that can't be replaced if the chosen unit dies. I think this is an important distinction: Eltris isn't just some stranger using Nilfheim as a mount, she's an Elf who has earned his respect and come to help him be even more ferocious. Mechanically, she has a very passive role of just following the dragon around and doing her best to help him, not ordering him around like Ne-Gok-Sa and the Romans. Quote:
I don't think that it's really fair to compare bios when one doesn't currently exist (especially one intentionally written poorly). I have every intention of writing a good bio for her when the time comes (I just intend to leave that until the end, in case things like the sculpt or class have to change), and I still believe that it can provide adequate explanation for her bond with a dragon. Quote:
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Looking at the Dragon Ally candidates that we currently have in the game, we have the personalities Wild, Menacing, Valiant, Ferocious, Fearless, Tricky, Precise, and Disciplined. None of those imply prideful or haughty to me, so the idea of them refusing help on mere principle alone (especially when that help is from a close and trusted ally) seems a little odd. As for the evil D&D dragons, I honestly know very little about that universe and its creatures, but it reminds me a little of the How to Train Your Dragon movie, wherein Vikings eventually become friends with their sworn enemies. Sure, it's a completely different story and world, but I think part of the appeal of a good Dragon Rider story is seeing two very apparently different individuals bond and become much closer to the point of friendship. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#2308
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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The chromatic dragons are evil: Red, White, Black, Green, Blue The metallic dragons are good: Gold, Silver, Bronze, Brass, Copper |
#2309
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#2310
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Thus it seems backwards to me for a deified dragon to let some elf ride it. Yes, it protects its people, but it's still deified (and elves aren't its people). It makes sense that it will let more subjects work for them, even if they are small lizards from another planet, but not that they'll form a sudden partnership with an elf. The fact that the nature of the Heartbreak power suggests an even closer bond makes it worse as both figures are unique, and yet apparently Eltris can have that bond with anyone. Quote:
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Sure, but for class we have King, Queen, and Emperor which definitely disagree with the theme. Prince could be sold, and maybe Beast and Young, but those are all Utgar/Valkrill who, again, I don't see letting a tasty snack ride them (and sure, it's a game not a simulation, but you need a good reason for the synergy in the first place which I'm not seeing). Quahon as a Predator for Aquilla is the closest bet, but at that point I'd still prefer specific Quahon synergy because nothing else makes sense (and Quahon needs that synergy less than most other dragons, which doesn't help). Quote:
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Monthly Utah Tournaments in SLC!!
Maps | Customs | Battle Reports 10 Points Under Videos "I'll save myself some time and say I pretty much 100% agree with Bigga" ~Flash_19 |
#2311
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
I have to disagree with Bigga on this one. I like it that Eltris can pair up with any dragon, and I think any attempts to limit that for the sake of theme will cut into the unit's simplicity.
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#2312
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
For what it's worth, I am quite firmly in Camp Scytale on this point. Which I suppose could be inferred from my earlier posts, but now I've said it plainly. I love this theme and I do not think you improve upon the implementation by attempting to shackle it to some subset of dragons, or reading lore so closely that the fun is sucked out of this clever idea.
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#2313
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program! Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites. |
#2314
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
@Astroking112
I think Eltris is brilliant. I love the idea and how you've implemented it. There have been a number of comments about the name of her last special. I will say, the name "Eternal Heartbreak" or even "Heartbreak" is a touch strange to me because it sounds like Eltris and the dragon are in love with each other... I think I might lean towards something simple like "Dismounted" or "Grounded" or something like that as a potential name. It's also been suggested that the wounds she takes be reduced to two (I might even suggest reducing it to 1). After her dragon buddy goes down, she'd probably go down real fast too, and I don't think she needs to essentially die as soon as the dragon goes down. |
#2315
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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It seems to me like a large part of what breaks the theme for you is combining a Heartbreak power with a "choose your bond" power, which I think is fair. I can see how that can be jarring, especially when strewing together multiple games as part of a narrative or campaign. Unfortunately, I have to agree with Scytale: having the freedom to choose your dragon is integral to this unit, and I believe that the positives outweigh the negatives. Quote:
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The "close and trusted ally" goes hand in hand with the idea of the dragon rider forming a bond with their Dragon Ally at some point in the war. I've personally never paid a ton of heed to general allegiances (at least to the point of intentionally disrupting synergies), especially since we know that the generals make alliances when they see fit. Ullar's admittedly experienced less changes of partners than Einar or Vydar, but nearly every unit in the game is pretty much fine with working with another general's army. Quote:
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I doubt that I'll be able to change her role so significantly without compromising my concept for the unit, but I still appreciate your thoughts on why she doesn't fit all the same. I hope that she can convince you of her place when she's ready for submission. Also, thanks for the support to @Scytale , @Dad_Scaper , and @Kinseth . I appreciate all of your thoughts on the matter and reassurances on the theme and implementation. Quote:
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I'm debating over still beginning the wounds at 3 since most people seem to think that's excessive, but in a strange way, I almost see it as a benefit to Eltris. By incentivizing the enemy to hit the dragon instead (which almost certainly has a higher defense), her benefit will be felt for longer and she won't be quite as squishy. Of course, that's all just theoryscaping, and I could be totally wrong in that regard. If I do drop the number, it'd probably be to 2 so that it's still dangerous but not absolutely crippling to her. It's a good point that she loses a defense die when her Dragon Ally dies, so perhaps that will be enough of an incentive to keep the decision of attacking the dragon or the rider interesting. Proud Member of Platyfly!
Custom Units — Maps & Scenarios Battle Reports The Case for a VC Master Set |
#2316
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop
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Perhaps I'm thinking too much from a tournament perspective. If I am going to invest all the points in the dragon and a figure to support that dragon, I want to feel like I'm getting the mileage out of it. Losing a dragon in a game is already a huge blow, and so essentially automatically losing another figure at the same time could be frustrating. But then you'd know better based on playtesting. And obviously Eltris is going to extend the survivability of the dragon.... So that would hopefully make up for the bigger loss. |
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