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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


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  #529  
Old August 16th, 2010, 09:51 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

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Originally Posted by Rich10 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Matthias brought up his own build in his first post, except it had Kaemon in stead of the AE. Nobody got close to your or Menchi's builds. MattserTruckrally did mention his 18th place army, which had knightsx2.

(If it wasn't for rats, the knights would win every time.)
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Knights/Gilbert have tough matchups vs 4th and especially 10th/Raelin. I would feel confident facing knights with Braxas/Greenscales/Raelin. Romans, WoA, and Dividers are a tough matchup for knights either by themselves or as a screen. I agree that rats are the knights worst matchup, but Knights/Gilbert aren't overpowered in a rat-free game.
I agree that they aren't overpowered, but I am very confident that in a rat free and 10th / Raelin / Marcus free (Matthias' kryptonite) environment the knights can beat anything when played correctly.

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Last edited by Matthias Maccabeus; August 16th, 2010 at 09:53 AM. Reason: OK and the WoA but who plays those anyway...
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  #530  
Old August 16th, 2010, 10:11 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

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Originally Posted by RoninValentina View Post
So are you telling me if I had had Kaemon Awa rather than a Hydra I would have likely taken you and MTCC to town?
You'll never know

Matthias used Hawthorne to break Mantrainchoochoo's rat screen on day 2, and he came within a hair's breadth of winning. Hawthorne is especially nice because you get ratkilling and knights in one OM... but the d20 can ruin your day.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
(If it wasn't for rats, the knights would win every time.)
I wouldn't be so sure of that. Knights/Gilbert have tough matchups vs 4th and especially 10th/Raelin. I would feel confident facing knights with Braxas/Greenscales/Raelin. Romans, WoA, and Dividers are a tough matchup for knights either by themselves or as a screen. I agree that rats are the knights worst matchup, but Knights/Gilbert aren't overpowered in a rat-free game.
Matthias insists that knightsx5 + Gilbert has the edge on 4th Mass on most maps, and I have a hard time arguing. lonewolf won general wars with that army (plus Shotgun Sullivan, who never got activated) and he beat 4th Mass played by good players to do it.

10th/Raelin/Marcus definitely has the edge on knights, yeah. RoninValentina beat that exact army in the round of 16 on day 2 with knights (after losing to it on day 1, I think), but the defense glyph probably made a big difference there.

The Braxas/Greenscale build is intriguing. Of all the GSW builds, it's the only one that hasn't made a big splash on the competitive scene yet.

Last edited by dok; August 16th, 2010 at 10:11 AM. Reason: Ninja'ed by Matthias, no surprise
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  #531  
Old August 16th, 2010, 10:29 AM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

I enjoy playing Braxas/Raelin/Greenscales. This summer it has been my second favorite army (behind Knights). The only problem with this army is in dealing with large/huge figures. When playing Braxas/Raelin/Greenscales, I haven't been able to answer the question, "How do I beat Q9?"

I agree that few play WoA, but if the rats weren't available to be played, I suspect that WoA, Romans, Dividers, etc., would be the new screen for ranged figures.

Last edited by Rich10; August 16th, 2010 at 11:25 AM.
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  #532  
Old August 16th, 2010, 12:24 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Knights v. Mass depends a lot on the maps used. If we're talking old-school BOV maps from 2007 (Mole Hill, Arctic Divide with terrain effects, Ember Canyon Road, etc), 4th win. But with jungle and smaller footprints being more common at today's GenCons, it swings to the Knights' favor.

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(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #533  
Old August 17th, 2010, 09:29 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Okay. I've been thinking about the whole Q9, Rats, Raelin things since the tournament ended. Meanwhile, I'm looking ahead to NHSD'10. The point total for the event here in Nor-Cal is going to be 460. One of the first armies that came to mind is:

Q9
Hydra
Rats x4
460 pts - 20 hexes.

Now, it's missing Raelin, but I think the extra squad of rats could help mitigate that. But the point I'm working towards here is the format for our tourney is an army swap. You play your army the first round, and then each round after you get an army drawn at random. You're also never allowed to play the same army twice. If I brought such an army, it'd be possible to see how well it does in the hands of four other players at the same event. Will such an army go 5-0? Or how many times will it lose? Will those losses correlate to player records or the armies they faced? Since we'll be keeping track of both player records and army records over the event, it might be possible to draw some conclusions on the whole thing.

I haven't committed to doing this yet, but if I did it would be for science (SCIENCE!) and that's kinda tempting. On the other hand, I have to see Menchi and Fishtako at these events, and I don't want them to punch me in the face.


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  #534  
Old August 17th, 2010, 10:11 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

For the record, Ronin, you have my vote. That army and tournament sound like a lot of fun. Now, you could bring Raelin by dropping two rat squads, and once the opponent breaks through the rat screen, bring Raelin up to the front lines to draw a little fire and possibly keep squads off of Q9 a little longer. Even sit her on a glyph (if available) to make the opponent deal with her instead of Q9.

Just a little theoryscape to satisfy my hunger.

OR... you could go with 4x rats.

Last edited by Kaemon Awasome; August 17th, 2010 at 10:13 PM. Reason: By "that army sounds fun" I mean, the expirement that comes with the army... that army is boring outside of the Hydra.
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  #535  
Old August 17th, 2010, 10:53 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

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Originally Posted by Matthias Maccabeus View Post
OK and the WoA but who plays those anyway...
I do... I love those gals.
The problem is I like to play them with things with units like Brandis Skyhunter and Morsebane.

Last edited by ElvenEnvy; August 17th, 2010 at 10:54 PM. Reason: Next time I'll be sure to throw in a Raelin and a Q9 will 'em
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  #536  
Old August 17th, 2010, 11:54 PM
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Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

I think the 2xrat/Raelin version makes more sense. It's not as ridiculous in its best matchups, but it's much more versatile. Against a Nilf/GSW or Grimnak/Heavy Grut build, the rat version without Raelin sort of falls apart. Raelin-backed Hydra is your bailout in those matchups.

If there were some good Heavy Grut and Greenscale builds, or even a nice Kaemon/Stinger build, I would not expect a random assortment of people to go 5-0 with that army. It's very powerful, but the OM management isn't trivial, particularly against anyone with special attacks.

Last edited by dok; August 17th, 2010 at 11:55 PM. Reason: I'm practically daring you to do it, aren't I?
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