space hulk

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by mad_wookiee

Yeah, what offends me is the suggestion that GW = Evil while BGG = Victim. BGG is just as culpable in this in my view because they clearly deleted content that shouldn't have been deleted and they've thus far been content to allow the rage against GW to cover up for that.

What would be in it for BGG? I mean you keep pointing at them as if they are somehow partially at fault, but what would be the motive? I am totally with them. It's time that stupidity pays the price. You can't have it both ways in my books. You can't claim to care about the fans on one hand, and on the other continue a ruthless campaign to squelch any form of creativity expressed by the very fans that are your bread and butter. Sorry, but I don't see how BGG needs to be held responsible for blatant jackassery on the part of GW.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by Aldie at BGG

As you may have already noticed, last week BoardGameGeek removed a number of the files that users had created and uploaded for board games published by Games Workshop Ltd. I'd like to take a moment to explain why this action was necessary and in the best interests of the site and the community.

BoardGameGeek recently received a cease and desist letter from Games Workshop demanding the removal of user-generated content that they believed to infringe their intellectual property rights. In order to comply with this demand, we have taken the following steps.

First, our Community Manager Matthew Monin has removed the allegedly infringing content, and has individually notified all users whose content was removed in connection with this process. Second, to avoid recurrence of this issue, we have indefinitely suspended all future uploading of files for products published by Games Workshop.

BoardGameGeek takes the intellectual property rights of publishers very seriously and urges everyone to ensure that all submitted content complies with the File Submission Guidelines that are displayed on the file upload page. The file submission guidelines are here: File_Submissions

In the near future, BoardGameGeek plans to put a process in place that will allow users to contest the removal of their content if they believe their removed content does not in fact infringe upon the rights of any third parties. Thank you very much for your vigilance in respecting the rights of publishers and for your continued support of BoardGameGeek.

I know this is a frustrating outcome for everyone involved, but I don't think that posting retaliatory game ratings is a constructive response to the situation.

Hope everyone had a happy Thanksgiving, and make sure to take care of your Secret Santa!

[mad_wookiee]

Aldie's now clarified that the file deletions were left to BGG's discretion based on the rules posted on GW's website. That means that GW did NOT require all of the deletions that were made, and that BGG reacted overzealously. That also means that much, but perhaps not all, of the anger directed towards GW has been misdirected.

[Oogie_Da_Bruce]

mad_wookie, I think you may have missed this part.

Originally Posted by Grungebob

BGG did act in removing much content (to cover their assets) but is also implementing a counter measure.

I see BGG acting wisley and fairly.

Why all the BGG Hate?

[mad_wookiee]

Originally Posted by Oogie_Da_Bruce

mad_wookie, I think you may have missed this part.

BGG did act in removing much content to cover their assets, but is implementing a counter measure.

I see BGG acting wisley and fairly.

Why all the BGG Hate?

You misunderstand. All of the anger directed towards GW has been on the assumption that GW required them to nuke the files. That wasn't what happened. I don't think they did the wrong thing, to be clear - except that they should have had better communication and should have owned up to the situation earlier. I think the massive, insane overreaction of the user community to this has been based almost entirely on a bad set of assumptions and I hope that all of the craziness like boycotts and retaliatory ratings will now die down, now that we know the truth: GW never demanded that all of that content come down. That was BGG's response to the situation.

[LilNewbie]

Hardcore BGG users overreacting...nope nothing new there...



Newb.

[Oogie_Da_Bruce]

I think I see where you're coming from.

I will agree this this is a huge mess and I'm glad Aldie spoke up.

Originally Posted by LilNewbie

Hardcore BGG users overreacting...nope nothing new there...



Newb.

QFT

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by mad_wookiee

Aldie's now clarified that the file deletions were left to BGG's discretion based on the rules posted on GW's website. That means that GW did NOT require all of the deletions that were made, and that BGG reacted overzealously. That also means that much, but perhaps not all, of the anger directed towards GW has been misdirected.

Aldies clarification:

The contents of the cease and desist highlighted 4 specific items (which we acted upon), and after replying to GW's legal department, we were told to cover a broad range of all files on the site where it was our determination in what to remove based on their intellectual property rules (posted on their website).

don't blame them one bit for taking it all down. It would all still be there if GW had not issued the C&D. In my opinion, BGG did the most efficient and safest thing. Sorry GW fanboys, it is your Mighty Empire that is to blame.

[LilNewbie]

I agree. BGG did the smart thing to remove anything that could be construed as challenging the IP of GW. It's just not worth all the legal fees and hassle when the GW games make up only a small portion of the game database. I do feel for the people that contributed their time and files to those games but the ire should be directed toward GW and not BGG. NOTE: I like GW games but have always disliked their legal antics...it's a company that manages to survive in spite of itself.

Newb.

[Grungebob]

Originally Posted by LilNewbie

I agree. BGG did the smart thing to remove anything that could be construed as challenging the IP of GW. It's just not worth all the legal fees and hassle when the GW games make up only a small portion of the game database.

Newb.

Not to mention the man hours necessary to decide individually which files are ok and which are not. GW doesn't deserve that kind of effort.

[LilNewbie]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

Not to mention the man hours necessary to decide individually which files are ok and which are not. GW doesn't deserve that kind of effort.

Agreed!

Newb.

[Elstree]

So BGG took a "better safe than sorry" approach and took down anything that might questionably be an IP violation. I can understand that: take it all down now and sort it out later, stay out of trouble. However, my understanding is that it's incumbent upon the party claiming the IP violation to be specific about the violations they're claiming. In this case, I think BGG could have asked GW to provide a list of specific files to remove.

Even so, that lessens my ire for GW only a little. They more than anyone should know that a hobby game is one where a significant part of the enjoyment comes from activities other than just playing the game--that means engaging with other fans and sharing custom scenarios, play aids, house rules and the like. (Hell, Hasbro understands that better than GW does--just look how lenient they are with us!) When GW starts to put a damper on that, it substantially diminishes my enjoyment of their product.