The Book of Quicksilver

[Griffin]

The red is in question.

WHIRLWIND VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 1 + Special.
Instead of moving and attacking normally, choose an adjacent figure to attack. Move Quicksilver up to six spaces. Quicksilver may not move onto the same space twice, and all spaces he moves onto must be adjacent to the chosen figure. Add 1 die to Quicksilver's attack for each space he moved onto during this Whirlwind Vortex Special Attack. The defending figure determines height advantage from the space on which Quicksilver ends his move.

Having to FAQ what "adjacent spaces are" can be annoying. Also, If Quicksilver starts his turn adjacent to Superman, jumps off of a cliff, lands 20 levels down, then runs on "adjacent" spaces without determining "engagement", the power would then be used in a way that was not intended. I may have missed a previous discussion, but why isn't "engagement" being used in this power?



The red is my suggestion.

WHIRLWIND VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 1 + Special.
Instead of moving and attacking normally, choose an adjacent figure to attack. Move Quicksilver up to six spaces. Quicksilver may not move onto the same space twice, and he must remain engaged with the chosen figure this turn. Add 1 die to Quicksilver's attack for each space he moved onto during this Whirlwind Vortex Special Attack. The defending figure determines height advantage from the space on which Quicksilver ends his move.

[Griffin]

Also, the last line isn't necessary at all, as the rules for height advantage defense are:

To carry out the attack, follow these steps:
1. Announce which figure is the Attacker and which figure is the Defender.
2. Check the Attack number on your Attacker's Army Card, adding any extra dice for height advantage, special powers, or Glyphs. Then roll that number of attack dice. After you roll, the Defender rolls the number of defense dice on his Defender's Army Card, adding any ext

Clearly the defense is rolled after the attack dice are rolled, and that is when the defender checks for height advantage.

Spelling it out the way it currently is on the front page is not something I recommend, because you are clarifying a rule that exists and should be well known. People may mess up or ask questions, but if so, that is due to a lack of knowing the rulebook or reading it. Again, I am sure it will happen to someone, but that clarification isn't our responsibility.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Griffin

The red is in question.

Having to FAQ what "adjacent spaces are" can be annoying. Also, If Quicksilver starts his turn adjacent to Superman, jumps off of a cliff, lands 20 levels down, then runs on "adjacent" spaces without determining "engagement", the power would then be used in a way that was not intended. I may have missed a previous discussion, but why isn't "engagement" being used in this power?

It says, quite plainly, that he can move up to six spaces, and that all spaces he moves onto must be adjacent to the chosen figure.
Is adjacency really something we have to explain to our players?
If Quicksilver jumps off of a cliff and lands 20 levels down, he's moving onto a space that is not adjacent to the chosen figure which means he's no longer using this special attack (and he's probably cheating because he's doing something he's not allowed to do under the game rules).
I don't think any of the playtesters had trouble with this one either.

Originally Posted by Griffin

The red is my suggestion.

I think that will lead to a lot more FAQs, honestly. Keep in mind that this guy has superspeed, which basically has phantom walk in it. If he runs through a Batman adjacent to Superman while running around Superman, is he still engaged there or not? He should be able to do so while using this power, though. I think, honestly, this change would lead to a lot more confusion instead of less, and I'm against it.

Originally Posted by Griffin

Also, the last line isn't necessary at all, as the rules for height advantage defense are:

To carry out the attack, follow these steps:
1. Announce which figure is the Attacker and which figure is the Defender.
2. Check the Attack number on your Attacker's Army Card, adding any extra dice for height advantage, special powers, or Glyphs. Then roll that number of attack dice. After you roll, the Defender rolls the number of defense dice on his Defender's Army Card, adding any ext

Clearly the defense is rolled after the attack dice are rolled, and that is when the defender checks for height advantage.

Spelling it out the way it currently is on the front page is not something I recommend, because you are clarifying a rule that exists and should be well known. People may mess up or ask questions, but if so, that is due to a lack of knowing the rulebook or reading it. Again, I am sure it will happen to someone, but that clarification isn't our responsibility.

That line was requested by the ERB during the ERB phase (Aldin, I believe) and I can see where the clarification is nice to have since Quicksilver's position isn't static during the attack.
Kumiko is kind of a precedent suggesting that such a line isn't necessary, but I can see where Quicksilver's power is a little different, as all up to six spaces he moves are really considered part of the attack, whereas Kumiko can just move and then perform separate attacks as she goes.
What do the rest of you guys think? I could go either way here ...

[SirGalahad]

I think it was Aldin who was questioning whether moving "through" the defending figure (which Q is allowed to do) would break engagement, so he made the suggestion for Q to stay on the spaces adjacent to the defending figure. I suppose both could be handled for clarity like this:

WHIRLWIND VORTEX SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1. Attack 1 + Special.
Instead of moving and attacking normally, choose an adjacent figure to attack. Move Quicksilver up to six spaces. Quicksilver may not move through the defending figure or onto the same space twice, and he must remain engaged with the chosen figure this turn. Add 1 die to Quicksilver's attack for each space he moved onto during this Whirlwind Vortex Special Attack.

[IAmBatman]

OK, the scenario I'm asking about is this, though. Quicksilver, Batman, and Superman are all adjacent to each other in a nice little triangle. It's Quicksilver verses Bats and Supes. Quicksilver, having superspeed, decides to use his special attack and start running around Superman. One of the spaces he runs on as part of this attack is Batman's space (which he's able to run through). Does this break Quicksilver's engagement with Superman? I'd say yes, but he's also allowed to do it as part of the intention of the special attack (and under the current wording).

[SirGalahad]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

OK, the scenario I'm asking about is this, though. Quicksilver, Batman, and Superman are all adjacent to each other in a nice little triangle. It's Quicksilver verses Bats and Supes. Quicksilver, having superspeed, decides to use his special attack and start running around Superman. One of the spaces he runs on as part of this attack is Batman's space (which he's able to run through). Does this break Quicksilver's engagement with Superman? I'd say yes, but he's also allowed to do it as part of the intention of the special attack (and under the current wording).

It doesn't break his engagement with Superman--he's moved "onto" a space where he would be adjacent to Superman if he could stop there.

[IAmBatman]

But he can't stop there, and he has to run through Batman, using disengagement and ghost walk, essentially, in order to be on that space. Is he really engaged with Superman while on the space Batman's occupying?
I'm really not sure. And I think it's a lot less clear than the current wording is ...

[SirGalahad]

If the intent of the power is that he should be able to do that (move through Batman while still adding attack dice to WVSA against Supes), then the current wording, plus a FAQ should do it.

I don't know that the official game addresses it, because figures with "pass through" special powers don't have a reason to remain engaged to the defending figure, so we're really -- once again -- looking at a new mechanic.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I figured as much, which is why I prefer the adjacency wording (and an FAQ). Any thoughts on how to word the FAQ?

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... on another front, I'm wondering if "Impatient" wouldn't be a better fit for his personality than "Conflicted"?

[SirGalahad]

How about this?

Q: Quicksilver is engaged with both my opponent's Batman and Superman, who are on adjacent spaces. We are all on the same level. Can Quicksilver use his Whirlwind Vortex Special Attack against Superman while passing through Batman?

A: Yes. Quicksilver's Superspeed power allows him to pass through figures. Quicksilver never leaves engagement with Superman as he whirls around him, even while passing through the space that Batman occupies, and should roll the full 7 dice if he ends up back on the space he started on.

[Griffin]

Dude, last night I must have been more tired than I thought. "Adjacent to the chosen figure" I thought it said "Adjacent to the space" or something. Wtf was I thinking? I don't know.

I will come back to this one when my brain is working and my ego gains its strength back.