Heroscape's Untold Basis

[shadow_111]

Hello, fellow 'scapers.

I have a theory about the origin of Heroscape. I've looked it up, and I don't think anyone has presented this before. I started doing a research paper on the peloponnesian war a while back, and everything about the war sounded vaguely familiar. I went back, checked my sources, and now I'm pleased to present the Peloponnesian War Heroscape theory.

First of all, we all know the war was between the city states of Athens and Sparta. The reason this war came about was that Athens controlled all the trade routes, and was slowly gaining control of the entire Greek world through financial means. Sparta and the city states of Boetia, Corinth and Macedonia (which was actually a seperate country), wouldn't stand for it. They Formed an alliance, and declared war on Athens. After many years of fighting, Athens realized the only way to win the war was by taking the island of Sicily. If they succeeded, they would control a valuable trading point, and a strategic position. If they failed, they would most likely lose the war. Once the got a position on the island, they quickly realized they didn't have enough cavalry to defeat their enemy. They failed at their Sicilian campaign. Sparta soon after obtained the help of Persian mercenaries.

The stated of Athens, Sparta, Boetia, Corinth, and Macedonia can be easily compared to the genarals Utgar, Jandar, Ullar, Einar, and Vydar respectively. The reason for this is as follows:

Utgar is Athens because he wishes to control all wellsprings, just as Athens wished to control all trade routes. Utgar and Athens are both on their own in a war against several other stated. Athen's army was also poorly trained. Utgar has several units, such as the Orcs or Marro, that seem to be poorly trained, as you need many of them to succeed.

Jandar is Sparta because he is the main force against Utgar, but is backed up by several other generals.

Vydar is Macedonia because they are both unreliable allies. Macedonia and Vyder both tried to stay as nuetral as possible, but both engaged in the war on the side of the primary fighter for independence.

Einar is Corinth. This is slightly less obvious. Corinth (Einar) toward the beginning of the war fought on the side of Athens (Utgar). After being impressed by Sparta (Jandar) by their power in war, Corinth (Einar) joined forces with Sparta (Jandar). As we all know, Einar currently fights for Jandar. But his allegiance with Utgar at the beginning of the war becomes quite clear as we take a look at the back of the packaging for the Roman booster pack. I quote:

Einar in his quest to aid Utgar control the wellsprings, has summoned additional warriors to fight with the fearsome Grimnak. A squad of 4 Roman Legionnaires and a squad of 3 Roman Archers are ready at your command. These archers and Legionnaires with their special powers and abilities will add strength and power to your armies.

This shows plainly that Einar willingly helped utgar at the war's onset.

Boetia is the one remaining city state, and was loyal to sparta through the war. Boetia is Ullar.

Now the Sicilian campaign is the SOTM master set, as the Marro, under the command of Utgar (Athens), try to take the swamps of Valhalla. If they managed to do this, they would be able to generate an obscene number of alien warriors (Huge trade port and supply of Greek warriors). They failed at this, however, because they didn't have have enough hivelords to deal with the squad of heroes sent by Jandar (Remember the Athenians failed in the campaign of Sicily because they didn't have enough cavalry.)

Shortly after the SOTM master set was released, the general Aquilla came into being. Aquilla fights on the side of Jandar, and therefore is the Persian army that helped in the war (Remember the Persians started in the fighting only after the Sicilian campaign).

So there is my theory. Thank you.

Please give me feedback, refute the theory, help support the theory, and just debate.

Also, I hope this is the right forum for this. If it's not, sorry.

[Jdet]

I'm not entirely sure how accurate the idea is but kudos for creativity. One small tweak though. Einar would be better as Sparta. The reason for this is that Sparta was renowned for it's military discipline. They would train boys as young as seven into military machines. This seems to fit more with Einar's heroes and squads than any other general.

[wriggz]

This article was not about the genreal's "fitting", but rather how history has unfolded in both a fantasy world and our real world. If the greek general and valkery generals had to align in personality too, I doubt Aquillia would match the Persian's.

It is very accurate and Worthy of a place in "Wriggz's Best Thread List".

[shadow_111]

@Jdet, You're right about the personality of the generals not fitting very well, but I was saying that the parts the Valkyrie generals play, along with the SOTM scenarios, correspond almost exactly with the events and cities of ancient greece.

@wriggz, Thanks, wriggz. I appreciate it. You hit the nail right on the head as far as interpretation of what my idea is about.

[belgarath]

It all seems to fit nicely so it may be plausible. Even if it isn't then it will make for interesting conversation.

[shadow_111]

I thought so. Thanks, man.

[chas]

Good scholarship, and interesting observations, SHADOW! I doubt the game was designed based on any one historical conflict. You could probably draw parallels with others as well. Some of the characters are based on historical types as we know (I found the historical source individual for Marcus a while back, and posted it).

To be certain, we'd have to ask Craig Van Ness, I suppose, or someone who knows him. But since its basically a fantasy genre, I'd guess it was actually based on Fantasy/SF and mythological themes.

BTW, a great history gaming article on the site shows that some of his character names were used in previous games, such as Fantasy Stratego.

[shadow_111]

Thanks. I appreciate any and all comments. You're right, though. To be certain, we would have to ask Van Ness. But since no one has as of yet, all we can do is speculate, so why not? ^_^

[J4Jandar]

Shadow, check the link in my signature.

[Kroc]

Originally Posted by J4Jandar

Shadow, check the link in my signature.

Yea, but this isn't about the origins of Heroscape. It's rather a cool parallel between HS and history. There's no way CVN was thinking about the Peloponnesian War when he was designing the game. Not when there are more obvious and more recent precedents like LOTR to base his book on (which was, I think, actually about WWII or WWI, see Nat Geo article.)

But it is a really cool post, and very cool the way shadow_111 makes the tie in so neat. Kudos dude for starting an interesting thread.

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[shadow_111]

Thanks, man. I do appreciate it. But I was thinking, It's possible that CVN wanted to use a less common, but just as interesting war as a basis. Especially when you consider how many games are based on WWII nowadays (either literally or figuratively). In short, maybe he avoided an obvious basis to bring something more original to the table? Because, if you think about it, when someone says "War", the first thing you think of is WWII. I don't know. Thanks so much for all the feedback, though.

[Tagawa]

That's a very well supported theory.