The C3G Cave - Hangout - Page 1466

cwidje · #**17581** March 27th, 2016, 10:50 AM

On an entirely different note, Happy Easter, everyone

IAmBatman · #**17582** March 27th, 2016, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tornado

Supergirl does a good job of a more classic Super-person.
She relates well with vulnerabilities that can be identified as human without dark brooding.
It really just comes down to what kind of Superman(or in this case, also Batman) you want.
You were cool with how you were portrayed Bats?

"I" have been portrayed as a vampire, a pirate, an anti-Communist rebel, and old man cynical about the world trying to take down a "god," a funny children's cartoon, a silly parody of a man in the sixties, and in so many other ways.

My favorite characterization is in the Dark Knight Trilogy. That was my Batman on film. I loved everything about it and nothing that comes after will diminish or take away from it.

But I can't say that the Batman v. Superman version of the Batman character is inconsistent with how the character has been portrayed, because the character has never been portrayed consistently. This is very much an older, cynical, unraveled by the deaths of those close to him Batman in the vein of Dark Knight Returns. And that's a legitimate way to present the character, especially if you've cast an actor in his 40s to do the job.

I'm glad that they chose to do something different than the Nolanverse. If they'd tried to repeat it, it would've been a tonally jarring, poor man's copy. Instead they do their own thing and they go all in on it, and that's cool, because it explores something new in the cinematic arena.

The character isn't going away any time soon. He'll be interpreted and reinterpreted dozens of different ways throughout the rest of my life and beyond. This was one way to do it and it was pretty interesting.

Is it my preferred way? No. But it fit in perfectly with this universe, it's part of telling a story that very much reflects our modern world and culture, IMO, and, darn it, I was entertained.

IAmBatman · #**17583** March 27th, 2016, 11:37 AM

Something interesting about the Rotten Tomatoes view of Batman v. Superman:

As of right now, roughly 185 critics disliked it, which accounts for its low Tomatometer score. Meanwhile, 73% of reporting audience members (or 117,000ish people) liked it. So it's actually a popular film right now, just not with those paid to criticize. (It's also opening a lot stronger than Deadpool did on the financial end).

Given audience reviews and financial returns, I see no reasons to think DC will be changing directions any time soon.

Smithy Winfred · #**17584** March 27th, 2016, 11:43 AM

I was going to make a long post on why this movie is actually very good, despite a lot of hate, but Hellfire stole the words from my mouth, a lot of good points. IMO it was a very ambitious movie that has several shortcomings, but it tries, an succeeds in being different, and that makes me very hopeful for the future DC movies.

And I was sure I wouldn't like it, I was really disappointed in Man of Steel, and I've got no love for Snyder. But still, it made me switch sides, so kudos on that

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellfire

Bats, I also saw the film and I liked it as well. I posted the following on a private forum about movies/video production/etc. It is a lengthy .02 cents but just my .02 cents nonetheless. I mostly just try to give a different perspective than what seems to be a rolling snowball of opinions ... No spoilers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellfire

After two viewings of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, I thought some would be interested to know some of my observations about the film. I don't like scoring films or writing a review that only addresses my tastes. My preference is to provide expectations without spoilers and attempt to see the film for what it is rather than for what I wish it would be. If you are insistent on seeing a score: My score for BvS: DoJ is 8.2.

To be blunt, I enjoyed the film. No, I'm neither a fanboy of Marvel or DC comics. Nevertheless, I came to appreciate the comic book medium before I came to appreciate film--Ultimately, as some of you know, I've been trained in both mediums and approach both of them in a way that is akin to how I read, study, and teach English literature.

However, I can see why some are lukewarm toward the film at best or hate the film at worst. If you are tired of the superhero genre and don't want to take it seriously, you probably won't like this movie. If you enjoy the Marvel movie formula (the recycled Hollywood plot formula with "fun" along the way) and didn't like Man of Steel, you probably won't like this movie either.

Personally, I like a wide variety of films ... In general, I watch movies and take them in for what they are. I have enjoyed metaphysical works like Darren Aronofsky's The Fountain, the quick and smart dialogue as written by Aaron Sorkin, and the Shakespearian plotting of Christopher Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy.

BvS isn't a train wreck. I enjoyed the film more than most Marvel films and even more than Deadpool. The film is layered with multiple plot threads that can be jarring...it's plotted more like a 5-act play or comic book 12-issue run than a standard Hollywood 3-act structure. There are a few plot elements that are either divisive, incomplete, or challenging to put together (but I believe this is true of the majority of Marvel/Superhero films; hell, even the majority of films as a whole).

BvS defies expectations and does so in multiple ways. This can be frustrating for some ... we've been trained to watch movies in a certain way; an idea that, I believe, Nolan plays around with in Inception.

What do I mean by expectations?

First, these are iconic characters. Each critic or lay viewer has been exposed to these characters at different times and under different circumstances ... perhaps it is the Christopher Reeve Superman flicks ... perhaps it was while reading comics during the late 80's or early 90's ... perhaps it was via another production like Man of Steel, the Wonder Woman TV show (starring Linda Carter), or the Nolan Batman trilogy ... As icons, a person tends to identify with that character in a different way and the prototypical version they expect may or may not appear on screen.

Second, the "superhero film genre" as seen in recent years has developed certain procedural expectations of what a superhero film should be. BvS isn't immune from this but it doesn't follow them in conventional ways. As mentioned earlier, the film is structured differently and pays more respect to comic book storytelling conventions than it does modern movie storytelling conventions ... at times this is good and at times it is not.

There are other conventions that could be worth exploring in a spoiler review but I'll refrain. I'll say this though, comics are by nature a medium of iterations--artists change, writers change, readers change, and so forth. The Marvel and DC universes are full of standalones, else worlds, multiverses, and infinite earths. BvS is one such iteration.

Which iteration does BvS borrow from?

Visually, in a way similar to Scorsese's Hugo (perhaps this will come across as blasphemy), BvS plays like a homage to DC comic book history ... granted it focuses more on the last 30 years or so rather than the first 30 years. I believe Geoff Johns influence can be felt throughout the film as core characters seem to borrow numerous elements from the recent New 52 story arcs (ex. Johns' Justice League). Additionally, the film's approach to character history is similar to the New 52--it takes for granted that audiences know the general history of its two main characters (through previous films) and instead of rehashing their stories for 2 hours it throws the audience right in. This defies modern expectations of pop culture storytelling (ex. YA novels; Marvel films) that wants to give us an origin story first (unless it is Spider-Man

). As a result, BvS borrows elements from a number of different sources to establish its own canon. This won't work for everyone and may come across as lazy storytelling. Some viewers I attended the movie with said that this approach diminished their ability to feel for the characters ... which I can understand. However, Marvel has given us a number of origin stories and I have yet to "feel" for their characters (The Winter Soldier would be my personal exception) beyond just having an overall sense of fun where the galaxy is saved by destroying literal and figurative mother ships, dance offs, and arresting actors that pretend to be terrorists (I've enjoyed Marvel films; I can't wait for Civil War, Dr. Strange, and more but so far the stakes have been rather low at a character level). Granted, BvS isn't perfect storytelling and it will rub some people the wrong way but I don't think it was lazy.

It's All Greek to Me

Some may use this phrase as a way of saying that the movie doesn't make any sense. However, I'm using it as a way of saying that it is Greek. It starts en media res ... it takes for granted the history and names of the gods ... it guest stars the daughter of Zeus whose appearance is deus ex machina ... and one character in particular is constantly referring to the titular characters as gods.

John Doe Sucks

This movie won't change your opinion of Man of Steel, Zack Snyder, Jesse Eisenberg, or David Goyer. Man of Steel plays a key role in BvS. Snyder's visual style is polished but is the same, Eisenberg's Luthor is as portrayed in the trailer (however, I believe it wasn't that bad within the context of the film and some will enjoy his performance quite a bit), and evidence of Goyer is present but there is also evidence of Terrio and Johns. Nevertheless, if you thought they sucked before, this movie probably isn't going to change your mind.

BvS isn't Fun

I enjoyed the film. But I also enjoy Antigone, Candide, Death of a Salesman, and the Iliad. If I am to believe my students, this makes me crazy ... these works are boring and have similarities to BvS. However, as one top critic on Rotten Tomatoes put it, this is "a popcorn film" and popcorn films "should never feel like Sunday night homework."

A Point of View

The reaction of critics and audiences has been strong ... perhaps it is the nature of modern society or humanity in general. The recent Star Wars film was received in a generally positive light but was at times ridiculed for not taking any risks, having plot holes, copying, and otherwise being the same.

BvS takes risks. Some may say that this or that happened too soon. Many critics have mentioned that the plot is a mess. Personally, I didn't have a hard time following it. There are times where I could notice that the creators probably removed content to reduce the running time (similar to Age of Ultron). Some transitions are weird and at times some character development may seem wanting (maybe that director's cut will shed some light on this). That said, I'm a believer in montage theory and I believe general audiences can make sense of it even though Hollywood has trained audiences to watch movies in a certain way (I'm not saying this is bad) and will make parts of the film seem jumpy or jarring.

One Last Bit

Finally, Superman's role is curious to some. They may find his character inconsistent, dark, brooding, or frustrating. When watching the movie, I'd recommend you take note of whose point of view each Superman scene is shot in ... this movie is about how we perceive Superman; naturally we are pretty divided on the matter.

johnny139 · #**17585** March 27th, 2016, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Something interesting about the Rotten Tomatoes view of Batman v. Superman:

As of right now, roughly 185 critics disliked it, which accounts for its low Tomatometer score. Meanwhile, 73% of reporting audience members (or 117,000ish people) liked it. So it's actually a popular film right now, just not with those paid to criticize. (It's also opening a lot stronger than Deadpool did on the financial end).

Given audience reviews and financial returns, I see no reasons to think DC will be changing directions any time soon.

Keep in mind that Rotten Tomatoes is open for user scores before the movie is actually out - it was at 99% positive with 100,000+ the day before the movie opened, so it's actually dropped considerably since then. However, sites like Metacritic and other review-aggregates also have user scores in the high 60s and low 70s, so yeah, there's going to be a disconnect for sure.

Not as wide as you might think, though. Rotten Tomatoes just says that 70% of critics wouldn't recommend the movie - they were overall negative. The average rating is a straight 5/10.

I severely doubt the movie will fail, though - I mean, it's Batman fighting Superman! It's going to make hundreds of millions no matter how it turned out. The only question is whether it's going to be a Man of Steel sized success or an Avengers sized success.

Ronin · #**17586** March 27th, 2016, 02:39 PM

A group of friends was going to see BvS the other day. I ended up deciding not to go, mostly on the grounds that I recently plopped down a bunch of money on clix and re-upping my Marvel Unlimited subscription. What I'm hearing has me curious; I'm not sure I'm going to like it, but I'm confident that the movie will at least be interesting. Expect a way-late review when I catch it on DVD in a few months.

Midgieboy3 · #**17587** March 27th, 2016, 09:22 PM

Batman V Superman was sub par.. I almost fell asleep.

redstang · #**17588** March 27th, 2016, 11:23 PM

Saw BvS last night. Overall, I was happy with what I saw. I would give it a B- grade. It is definitely different compared to the Marvel formula, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. DC had to play catch up with this movie, and it shows. There is a lot happening in roughly 2.5 hours. As is said previously in this thread, it plays out more like a graphic novel and less like a modern movie. I have a general working knowledge of DC comic history and I think that helped me enjoy the movie more than my friend who doesn't have the same background. I will be watching it a second time and I am excited for the future of the DC cinematic multiverse.

Midgieboy3 · #**17589** March 28th, 2016, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redstang

Saw BvS last night. Overall, I was happy with what I saw. I would give it a B- grade. It is definitely different compared to the Marvel formula, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. DC had to play catch up with this movie, and it shows. There is a lot happening in roughly 2.5 hours. As is said previously in this thread, it plays out more like a graphic novel and less like a modern movie. I have a general working knowledge of DC comic history and I think that helped me enjoy the movie more than my friend who doesn't have the same background. I will be watching it a second time and I am excited for the future of the DC cinematic multiverse.

I'm excited to see the "real" rated R cut.

IAmBatman · #**17590** March 28th, 2016, 08:07 AM

Yeah, I see a lot of critics writing that it was "hard to follow" or "incomprehensible" in its plot. I had no trouble at all. I suspect some of that has to do with having a strong working knowledge of the characters, though. I don't mind seeing a superhero movie that's for the fans and not dumbed down for the masses, though, especially if they can do it in a way where it'll still make a ton of money (which they seem to have).

johnny139 · #**17591** March 29th, 2016, 04:47 PM

So, I'm looking into Scott Snyder's Batman run, since I'm on the DC Rebirth train. Anyone familiar with that run? I know to buy the regular Vol 1-9 but beyond that I'm a bit lost.

Any New 52 Superman recommendations would also be appreciated!

(...I feel like no one has read any New 52...)

IAmBatman · #**17592** March 29th, 2016, 04:54 PM

What's New 52?

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
slot-cars and R/C car chatter	K/H_Addict	General	41	December 16th, 2015 10:16 PM
"Please change my thread title." Request thread.	Onacara	Scapers Online	4	April 15th, 2008 10:52 PM
Guitar Hero Disc Replacement Thread (fuse with GH thread?)	GeneralBeaner	Video Games	1	March 10th, 2008 09:52 PM
Cyber Monday (aka the WTF happened to this thread? thread)	Onacara	Sightings and Sales	71	November 28th, 2007 02:59 PM
Spammer-thread-rant (& Spam-Hunter! Comment Thread)	Dragonslayer	Scapers Online	351	May 24th, 2007 08:35 PM