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C3G Legacy Archive of all the original discussions and workshops from the first stage of C3G.

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  #16657  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 05:34 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
Honestly, I would just drop phasing and shapeshifter for density control.
That doesn't give him the swiss army knife feel, or thematic representation as much though. Shapeshift allows him some suitable immunities and opens up the door for some interesting counters to figure's specials relating to size. Phasing allows him an unblockable on a figure he passes through, so his only offensive tool isn't just an attack.

Density Control is Ingangibility without being movable by an opponent. Not really that fun or special in comparison if you ask me...

If it's a matter of 4 powers vs. 3, the combined version still doesn't seem all that "forced" if you ask me:

PHASING SHAPESHIFTER
After an Order Marker is revealed, Martian Manhunter may change his size to Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, or Huge. Martian Manhunter may move through all figures, never takes leaving engagement attacks, and cannot be targeted by a non-adjacent enemy figure for any attacks or special powers that require clear sight. After moving with Martian Manhunter, you may roll one unblockable attack die against a figure he passed through this turn.

Sure, it's several specials into one, but this wouldn't be the first special to do something like this. It's essentially inspired from the likes of Speed Force, Intangibility, Daywalker, Density Control etc. in which you list the immunities the character has followed up by an ability that makes it different.

With that said, I personally don't see the problem with 4 powers for him. Even your version had something similar with 4 powers being represented.

Last edited by Arkham; July 3rd, 2015 at 06:26 PM.
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  #16658  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 07:25 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

I'd drop huge, but otherwise I'm good with it.
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  #16659  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 07:27 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
I'd drop huge, but otherwise I'm good with it.
Alright, any particular reason why? He can go as tiny as a fly, or as big as a skyscraper, at least according to DC Comic Database. Regardless, it shouldn't matter, the theme is captured even without Huge, so it's no big deal either way. Just curious.

I'm going to include "for the duration of the turn", as to not get confused on what his current size is throughout the game. With that being the case, Medium can be taken off as well, as he'll naturally revert back to it after each time a turn is taken, so he'll never have to change to Medium. Small may be worth removing as well, as I don't currently see any advantage, counter, or immunity based around being Small. Tiny or Large both get around a fair amount of stuff, or can be used to combat certain figures.

With that change, we're left with this current version:
Spoiler Alert!

Last edited by Arkham; July 3rd, 2015 at 07:46 PM.
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  #16660  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 09:54 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post

ADEPT TELEPATHY
An opponent may never take control of Martian Manhunter or any friendly figure within clear sight of Martian Manhunter. Friendly figures with a JL marker on their card, and Martian Manhunter, are always considered in clear sight of each other.
This seems like putting in the JL markers for no reason...why limited it like that and not just let it be like Emma Frost...

Also if all figures are considered in clear sight then why do you need to put that in the power

How is this...

ADEPT TELEPATHY
While Martian Manhunter is in play all squad and hero figures you control are considered in clear sight of each other and an opponent may never take control of any figure you control.

Same idea...fewer words.

Also...I appologize if someone already mentioned this and I missed it...but has anyone just thought about Density Control to go with JLI and AT

DENSITY CONTROL
MM can move through all figures and obstacles such as ruins, and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. MM cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or special powers that require clear sight. MM may not be moved by any special power on an opponent's Army Card

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #16661  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:02 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

I strongly oppose a blanket "negate every figure control power" ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
Honestly, I would just drop phasing and shapeshifter for density control.
That doesn't give him the swiss army knife feel, or thematic representation as much though. Shapeshift allows him some suitable immunities and opens up the door for some interesting counters to figure's specials relating to size. Phasing allows him an unblockable on a figure he passes through, so his only offensive tool isn't just an attack.
I agree the attack die is a big deal. But aside from that, when I read the size stuff, I just read "opponents can't move the figure". That's really the main effect.
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  #16662  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:05 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I strongly oppose a blanket "negate every figure control power" ability.
I believe he has had that in there since the beginning. It's not something I added.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #16663  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:08 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

NAME = MARTIAN MANHUNTER
SECRET IDENTITY = J'ONN J'ONZZ

SPECIES = MARTIAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = TELEPATH
PERSONALITY = BENEVOLENT

SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 8

MOVE = 8
RANGE = 6
ATTACK = 6
DEFENSE = 7

POINTS = 350-370


JUSTICE LEAGUE INITIATIVE
At the start of the game, you may place a JL marker on the card of 2 other friendly Unique Heroes. When rolling for initiative, add 1 to your roll for each friendly figure with a JL marker on its card. If you win initiative, you may immediately move each figure with a JL marker on its card up to 4 spaces.

DENSITY CONTROL
MM can move through all figures and obstacles such as ruins, and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. MM cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or special powers that require clear sight. MM may not be moved by any special power on an opponent's Army Card

TELEPATHIC LINK
While MM is in play all squad and hero figures you control are considered in clear sight of each other.

This looks like something that would likely get accepted power-wise. Stats may need work.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #16664  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:15 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I strongly oppose a blanket "negate every figure control power" ability.
I believe he has had that in there since the beginning. It's not something I added.
Earlier it was limited to adjacent figures, and/or adjacent figures with a JL marker. That sort of limited protection is fine. It's the blanket protection that I oppose.
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  #16665  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:15 PM
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Arkham Arkham is offline
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I strongly oppose a blanket "negate every figure control power" ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
Honestly, I would just drop phasing and shapeshifter for density control.
That doesn't give him the swiss army knife feel, or thematic representation as much though. Shapeshift allows him some suitable immunities and opens up the door for some interesting counters to figure's specials relating to size. Phasing allows him an unblockable on a figure he passes through, so his only offensive tool isn't just an attack.
I agree the attack die is a big deal. But aside from that, when I read the size stuff, I just read "opponents can't move the figure". That's really the main effect.
The size thing does more than just keep him from being moved. It also allows him to move out of engagement from Blob/Doc Oc etc., attack and take leaving engagements on Tiny figures, resize the turn after Brainiac shrinks him...and any other power related to size(which is quite a few actually).it's also a big part of the character, being able to change his size and shape etc.

As for the blanket control power. It's absolutely in his ability to prevent allies minds from being taken control of. The range on it can be discussed sure, I'm not dead set on something, but I feel it's a useful ability to keep his team's minds protected. Mandarin can do it to any adjacent figure, so what seems reasonable here?
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  #16666  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:18 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post

DENSITY CONTROL
MM can move through all figures and obstacles such as ruins, and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. MM cannot be targeted by opponents' non-adjacent figures for any attacks or special powers that require clear sight. MM may not be moved by any special power on an opponent's Army Card

TELEPATHIC LINK
While MM is in play all squad and hero figures you control are considered in clear sight of each other.

This looks like something that would likely get accepted power-wise. Stats may need work.
Ugh...why Density Control? It takes away 2 thematic uses of his abilities...

I understand the desire to simplify everything as possible, but if it means taking away 2 decent additions that represent the character rather than slapping on a generic version of the power that doesn't accomplish the same, I don't see why that's the best solution here. I want everyone to be on board, and see it pass, but I dot want to compromise the design aspects that far.
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  #16667  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:19 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I strongly oppose a blanket "negate every figure control power" ability.
I believe he has had that in there since the beginning. It's not something I added.
Earlier it was limited to adjacent figures, and/or adjacent figures with a JL marker. That sort of limited protection is fine. It's the blanket protection that I oppose.
I don't get the point of limiting it to JL markers...why would he not protect all his allies? He had all within clear sight but also in the same power gave all figure clear sight...I do prefer adjacent now that you mention it.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #16668  
Old July 3rd, 2015, 10:21 PM
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Re: Public Design Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
I strongly oppose a blanket "negate every figure control power" ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karat View Post
Honestly, I would just drop phasing and shapeshifter for density control.
That doesn't give him the swiss army knife feel, or thematic representation as much though. Shapeshift allows him some suitable immunities and opens up the door for some interesting counters to figure's specials relating to size. Phasing allows him an unblockable on a figure he passes through, so his only offensive tool isn't just an attack.
I agree the attack die is a big deal. But aside from that, when I read the size stuff, I just read "opponents can't move the figure". That's really the main effect.
The size thing does more than just keep him from being moved. It also allows him to move out of engagement from Blob/Doc Oc etc., attack and take leaving engagements on Tiny figures, resize the turn after Brainiac shrinks him...and any other power related to size(which is quite a few actually).it's also a big part of the character, being able to change his size and shape etc.

As for the blanket control power. It's absolutely in his ability to prevent allies minds from being taken control of. The range on it can be discussed sure, I'm not dead set on something, but I feel it's a useful ability to keep his team's minds protected. Mandarin can do it to any adjacent figure, so what seems reasonable here?
It's a lot of space for honestly a very limited pay off with the LE for Tiny figures and Brainiac...as for the Blob deal couldn't you just have a statement similar to the "may not move this figure".

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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