Programming Languages Questions

[zing103]

I've been thinking about learning programming for a while, and am starting to dive into it. One thing I want to "eventually" do is to make a computer based software that I could play scape on. Mainly cause I have a really small collection. I was wondering what programming languages I'd need to know, and figured someone on this forum could help.

Thanks!

[Arrow Grut]

Originally Posted by zing103

I've been thinking about learning programming for a while, and am starting to dive into it. One thing I want to "eventually" do is to make a computer based software that I could play scape on. Mainly cause I have a really small collection. I was wondering what programming languages I'd need to know, and figured someone on this forum could help.

Thanks!

I'm gonna say this once. Creating a 'scape computer simulation IS illegal.

[crxcowboy]

I agree with Arrow Grut. It is illegal. You may can find folks to play with in your area if you look hard enough.
Since I'm a software developer, I will say this: If you are interested in learning graphical programming, there are many routes to take, but learning Flash or Flex is a good place to start.

[Agent Minivann]

I'll jump in with a similar question. I'm thinking about learning programming as well, but probably from a very different background. I've grown up around computers my whole life (dad worked for IBM when they sold computers), but never learned any programming (unless you count a semester each of Basic and Pascal 20 years ago in high school that I don't remember). What are some good routes to go along to get a good head start on taking classes this fall. I would like to get a good foundation that would give me options, but something I would like to accomplish is an iOS/Android app that I have been thinking about that can output some data (sports stats) probably in a CSV file.

[zing103]

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

I'm gonna say this once. Creating a 'scape computer simulation IS illegal.

I thought selling it or giving it away to other people is illegal.... But just making one is illegal?

[crxcowboy]

Agent Minivann - http://developer.android.com/guide/index.html is a good place to start. If you aren't familiar with Java or Eclipse, that's the place to start before even the android developer guide.

zing103 - it's probably a lawyer question. If there are any copyright lawyers on the forum, they could probably answer the question much more accurately.

[Hackmaster +12]

I am not a lawyer (but I've played one in a game!). If you were to create a HeroScape program for yourself, and not distribute it, that should be perfectly fine (as in not illegal). The moment you would cross the line would be if you were to make it available to others and/or take money for it.

[Arrow Grut]

Someone already tried it....

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=16258

And contacted WotC and they took it away from him.

[CiananBrage]

I'm certainly not a lawyer either, but was forced to read up on things a bit before releasing HS-aholic.
The key part of any copyright violation claim is damage to the companies image/profits. So, any item created for personal use only should be 100% fine (anyone willing to put in the effort to create their own was most likely never going to purchase the official item). However, as soon as you distribute or sell the item you would be in complete violation.
The real catch is not wanting to show off your software when you complete it. Host a tourney that uses your awesome software instead of the official game pieces and you're definitely in violation, but its a hard temptation to pass up showing off cool software after all the work it takes to make.

For anyone wanting to learn to code I'd recommend the iPhone & Android SDKs. Both are very popular atm, which means there is a wealth of official and community resources available to help you learn it.
The iPhone uses objective-c (by far the friendliest c-variant I've ever personally used) and Android uses java (the most popular language used by colleges).
Another good option to simply get your feet wet is to spend some time learning the ropes with some scripting. Some simple vbscript work can be a great way to start (completely free and built into windows simply create a text file and change the extension to .vbs or .hta depending on what your making). The w3schools website is a great vbscript resource.

Even writing well-formed HTML/XML can be a good exercise for a beginner. And if your really into the web you can learn Flash (many claim its very easy to learn, but I've never personally had interest in it).

Personally I started with c/c++ and although I was forced to learn java back in college I've always had a serious prejudice against its clunkiness (think game engines) and I'm very OCD about code so the 'flexible' languages like java tend to cause me serious irritation since many coders are extremely lazy/impatient when it comes to structure and documentation. (Yes you can create really crappy c code, but it'll almost always fail which is a good deterrent against such behavior.)
On the other hand many c-variants are poorly equipped for handling more modern features (UTF chars & networking come to mind) and the c-style syntax can be challenging for beginners. Beyond that the error reporting of c compilers is plain dismal (this forces you to code very carefully or spend massive amounts of time debugging), while other languages like java tend to have excellent debug output in comparison.

[Hackmaster +12]

Originally Posted by Arrow Grut

Someone already tried it....

http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=16258

And contacted WotC and they took it away from him.

Looking through that thread, it looks like he said (in the first post) that WotC was unable to grant him permission to share it publicly. It didn't say that they took it away from him. (Please link to that post if I missed it)

[Arrow Grut]

Originally Posted by Hackmaster +12

Looking through that thread, it looks like he said (in the first post) that WotC was unable to grant him permission to share it publicly. It didn't say that they took it away from him. (Please link to that post if I missed it)

Here's a link: (second post down)
http://www.heroscapers.com/community...t=16258&page=6

They didn't actually take it away from him, per se, but they made him stop using it, even privately.

[Billtrumpet25]

Originally Posted by CiananBrage

I'm certainly not a lawyer either, but was forced to read up on things a bit before releasing HS-aholic.
The key part of any copyright violation claim is damage to the companies image/profits. So, any item created for personal use only should be 100% fine (anyone willing to put in the effort to create their own was most likely never going to purchase the official item). However, as soon as you distribute or sell the item you would be in complete violation.
The real catch is not wanting to show off your software when you complete it. Host a tourney that uses your awesome software instead of the official game pieces and you're definitely in violation, but its a hard temptation to pass up showing off cool software after all the work it takes to make.

For anyone wanting to learn to code I'd recommend the iPhone & Android SDKs. Both are very popular atm, which means there is a wealth of official and community resources available to help you learn it.
The iPhone uses objective-c (by far the friendliest c-variant I've ever personally used) and Android uses java (the most popular language used by colleges).
Another good option to simply get your feet wet is to spend some time learning the ropes with some scripting. Some simple vbscript work can be a great way to start (completely free and built into windows simply create a text file and change the extension to .vbs or .hta depending on what your making). The w3schools website is a great vbscript resource.

Even writing well-formed HTML/XML can be a good exercise for a beginner. And if your really into the web you can learn Flash (many claim its very easy to learn, but I've never personally had interest in it).

Personally I started with c/c++ and although I was forced to learn java back in college I've always had a serious prejudice against its clunkiness (think game engines) and I'm very OCD about code so the 'flexible' languages like java tend to cause me serious irritation since many coders are extremely lazy/impatient when it comes to structure and documentation. (Yes you can create really crappy c code, but it'll almost always fail which is a good deterrent against such behavior.)
On the other hand many c-variants are poorly equipped for handling more modern features (UTF chars & networking come to mind) and the c-style syntax can be challenging for beginners. Beyond that the error reporting of c compilers is plain dismal (this forces you to code very carefully or spend massive amounts of time debugging), while other languages like java tend to have excellent debug output in comparison.

I have read the copyright law beginning to end (as I am sending in a book I wrote in for a federal copyright--I want to be fluent in the law). The assertion that private use is 100% legal is exactly correct. Technically, so is making a software for public use. You see, there are many provisions in the Copyright Act of 1976 that give leniency in such matters. The first is what they call the "fair use" provision. Not only does it allow such a creation for private viewing/use, but it also allows for special circumstances in regards to the nature of its use. For example, if the software will not be sold for a profit, then it is well within the legal spectrum of the "fair use" clause (Chapter 1, section 107).

It is a fact that arrangements and variations on a project, whether a game, movie, music, etc. is allowed and recognized by the US Copyright Office (there are even sections for such a declaration when filling out Form CO,TX, VA, etc.). Logically, such a variation of Heroscape falls under these guidelines; thus, one attempting this would be perfectly safe from legal harm. In such a case, "a design shall not be deemed to have been copied from a protected design if it is original and not substantially similar in appearance to a protected design". I do not believe a software version of Heroscape currently exists, and it certainly would not be entirely similar to every entity in the board version of the game.

I am not a lawyer, but I am well versed in copyright law. If anyone has a question, shoot me a PM or just reply to this post, and I'll answer as best I can. Regardless, I would advise anyone to consult legal representation if such a court matter should arise.