Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Custom Units & Army Cards Fan-created HS army cards for units, glyphs, and equipment


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #4573  
Old April 28th, 2021, 10:28 AM
Astroking112's Avatar
Astroking112 Astroking112 is offline
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Dallas
Posts: 3,058
Images: 39
Blog Entries: 59
Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I'm looking for some feedback and impressions on Nure Onna, another Yokai that I've been testing pretty extensively as of late. @Captain Stupendous and I have redesigned her from her initial draft to fulfill a different niche within the Yokai army, with the dual purpose of also finally offering another 20-point filler than Marcu or Isamu+Bol.


Marcu obviously has more offensive power, mobility, and utility to absorb stuff like Wannok for your army, with Eternal Hatred (sometimes) keeping him in check. Nure Onna, by contrast, has difficulty going up terrain that's more than 2 levels tall, but provides some light utility as a defense debuff when set up well. On the right map with the right position, she can get 3 or 4 attack with -2D, which is situationally better than Marcu's 4 base attack. Her 7 move is also quite interesting when combined with Seimei's Shapeshift, since she can "lend" that extra movement to other figures in early rounds or you can place another Yokai near water to set up a potential trap.

To make her more engaging, she does have the potential of supporting other figures in your army as well with Paralyzing Trap, but I've found this to be difficult in standalone armies (and the Yokai themselves are mostly melee, which makes it difficult to protect her). Generally, your other figures are better bets for turns early on, and in the endgame, the -2D can still be unreliable when you're banking on a 3L/2D figure lasting multiple turns to get value out of the penalty. She kind of fulfills a similar purpose to Marcu, but in a more restrained way that hasn't been problematic in my testing. The fact that she also feels distinct from him has been pretty important to Captain Stupendous and me, too.

In a Yokai army, though, she basically becomes a Kyntela Gwyn. The Yokai really want to have as many Shapeshifting opportunities as possible thanks to their place-switching trickery, and Night of the Yokai/Divination make her Paralyzing Trap much easier to achieve. It's still a difficult choice, though, especially when you're juggling Ibaraki-doji, Masha Shingai, and something like the Kirin that also want revealed OMs each round. I've found that she really enhances the army overall while also standing out on her own. My primary concerns at this point are that fillers are generally regarded with apprehension due to the low cost often being a gimmick, along with concerns that she might still be perceived as being too similar to Marcu or worrisome for her point value.
Reply With Quote
  #4574  
Old April 28th, 2021, 12:14 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,332
Images: 471
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I like Nure Ohna. The stats are nice and weak and the left-side stats look good. Having playtested the Yokai a lot, I can see some clever uses, and she's not bad as filler for other armies.

The one thing I'm not really happy with Paralyzing Trap doesn't have a size restriction; from both gameplay and thematic perspectives it doesn't seem like it should affect the biggies.
Reply With Quote
  #4575  
Old April 28th, 2021, 02:03 PM
Shiftrex's Avatar
Shiftrex Shiftrex is offline
 
Join Date: December 23, 2014
Location: Country - State - Major City (Town)
Posts: 744
Images: 57
Blog Entries: 9
Shiftrex wears ripped pants of awesomeness Shiftrex wears ripped pants of awesomeness Shiftrex wears ripped pants of awesomeness Shiftrex wears ripped pants of awesomeness Shiftrex wears ripped pants of awesomeness Shiftrex wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Looks like a thematic clash when compared to your source material and the bio you've created for the unit.

The Paralysis Trap, which is symbolizing the hand off of the baby-like bundle I'm guessing, should only effect one thing at a time. This Yokai looks like it effects and targets one person at a time, as a large part of its lore to punish choices. Functioning as a mass debuff feels unthematic.

I also agree, it shouldnt effect large/huge figures. Should it effect Soulborgs either? Doesnt quite feel right.

From the deep is a good name to connect with the folklore and the imagery from the bio. I dont understand why she needs an attack boost from a thematic perspective, it feels out of place.
Reply With Quote
  #4576  
Old April 28th, 2021, 02:23 PM
TheAverageFan's Avatar
TheAverageFan TheAverageFan is offline
Competitive Fan Fiction Champion & Grade A Meme CoNtributor
 
Join Date: December 17, 2009
Location: USA - OH - West Chester
Posts: 3,082
Images: 391
TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex
Looks like a thematic clash when compared to your source material and the bio you've created for the unit.

The Paralysis Trap, which is symbolizing the hand off of the baby-like bundle I'm guessing, should only effect one thing at a time. This Yokai looks like it effects and targets one person at a time, as a large part of its lore to punish choices. Functioning as a mass debuff feels unthematic.
The Gladitrons only have one claw each yet Cyberclaw affects all adjacent foes. I imagine making powers like this only target one adjacent unit at a time is too hard to keep track of in practice. A necessary sacrifice for the sake of simplicity.

~TAF

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

Reply With Quote
  #4577  
Old April 28th, 2021, 08:58 PM
Astroking112's Avatar
Astroking112 Astroking112 is offline
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Dallas
Posts: 3,058
Images: 39
Blog Entries: 59
Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I like Nure Ohna. The stats are nice and weak and the left-side stats look good. Having playtested the Yokai a lot, I can see some clever uses, and she's not bad as filler for other armies.

The one thing I'm not really happy with Paralyzing Trap doesn't have a size restriction; from both gameplay and thematic perspectives it doesn't seem like it should affect the biggies.
Thematically, there's actually some very specific aspects of the Nure Onna legend that Paralyzing Trap is referring to. In essence, the monster lures men to the shore, then hands them a baby. This baby quickly becomes very heavy and the victims cannot let it go as she drains their blood until a stronger Yokai comes in and finishes the job. I'm not sure what the immediate visual image without that background is (given how obscure Yokai mythology is to many, I figured that a vague power name was probably the best way to capture this aspect of the legend, but it probably leaves room for misinterpretation for the power to be about venom or constricting the target, or something along those lines). In terms of the actual legend, though, there's no reason why the boulder baby wouldn't paralyze a big figure just as well, given that it's largely a mental/hallucinatory trap. I could definitely see this feeling weird without that pretty specific bit of knowledge, though, which people are unlikely to know without an accompanying bio.

In terms of gameplay, I've found that she's useful to break through high-defense targets like Q9 or dragons, especially if the player can also afford Ibaraki-doji or Masha with their higher base attacks. A more common use for her is indeed probably to make sure that the Yokai's fewer attacks per OM pay off in killing squads, though. Is there a specific reason why paralyzing the bigger figures feels off to you, or is it more of the result of many similar-themed powers like Paralyzing Stare featuring a size restriction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiftrex View Post
Looks like a thematic clash when compared to your source material and the bio you've created for the unit.

The Paralysis Trap, which is symbolizing the hand off of the baby-like bundle I'm guessing, should only effect one thing at a time. This Yokai looks like it effects and targets one person at a time, as a large part of its lore to punish choices. Functioning as a mass debuff feels unthematic.
Much as TAF noted, I think this is a Gladiatrons-esque scenario where the hassle of trying to limit the defense penalty to one figure per attack isn't worth the thematic benefit, especially since I haven't seen many indications that the Nure Onna would only target one figure at a time anyway--to the contrary, one of the sources that I'd read talked about one taking out a wave of people in a boat all at once.

There's a surprising amount of leeway in Yokai legends in any case, and since the only time that the scenario really "breaks" is when multiple adjacent figures are attacked simultaneously by something like an explosion attack, the fringe case doesn't seem to be worth driving the design to me at a first glance.

Quote:
I also agree, it shouldnt effect large/huge figures. Should it effect Soulborgs either? Doesnt quite feel right.

From the deep is a good name to connect with the folklore and the imagery from the bio. I dont understand why she needs an attack boost from a thematic perspective, it feels out of place.
I don't see why Soulborgs would be immune? They're typically immune to things that would only affect biological creatures like plagues, venom, or Cyprien's chilling touch. They're not immune to fear or magical effects like Paralyzing Stare or demonic boulder babies. My apologies if I've missed something about the source legend here.

The thematic justification for an attack bonus is that the Nure Onna was typically pretty violent as a vampiric Siren parallel--this design even had Life Drain not too long ago to further emphasize that sharky playstyle, but Captain Stupendous pointed out that it made this iteration a bit too similar to Marcu and I don't disagree.
Reply With Quote
  #4578  
Old April 28th, 2021, 10:56 PM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,332
Images: 471
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I could definitely see this feeling weird without that pretty specific bit of knowledge, though, which people are unlikely to know without an accompanying bio.
That. Players shouldn't have to research a unit to understand it.
Reply With Quote
  #4579  
Old April 28th, 2021, 11:21 PM
Astroking112's Avatar
Astroking112 Astroking112 is offline
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Dallas
Posts: 3,058
Images: 39
Blog Entries: 59
Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

That's a fair assertion, albeit a difficult one for the Yokai in particular given that they don't share the benefit of familiarity from Western-based units. I'll experiment with a size restriction to make sure that it doesn't change too much; given that she's only 20 points and the Yokai can still function without her, I doubt that it will, but it's best to make sure, of course.
Reply With Quote
  #4580  
Old April 29th, 2021, 09:42 AM
Scytale's Avatar
Scytale Scytale is offline
Thanksgiving Custom Contest Champion
 
Join Date: August 25, 2006
Location: USA - MN - Rochester
Posts: 10,332
Images: 471
Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth Scytale is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
That's a fair assertion, albeit a difficult one for the Yokai in particular given that they don't share the benefit of familiarity from Western-based units. I'll experiment with a size restriction to make sure that it doesn't change too much; given that she's only 20 points and the Yokai can still function without her, I doubt that it will, but it's best to make sure, of course.
With a name like "Paralyzing Trap," we really don't need to understand the lore to appreciate it. It does something to adjacent figures and has a paralyzing effect, ok cool. It starts to feel off when such a small figure can affect large and huge figures as easily as small ones, especially when similar powers normally cannot.
Reply With Quote
  #4581  
Old April 29th, 2021, 01:27 PM
TheAverageFan's Avatar
TheAverageFan TheAverageFan is offline
Competitive Fan Fiction Champion & Grade A Meme CoNtributor
 
Join Date: December 17, 2009
Location: USA - OH - West Chester
Posts: 3,082
Images: 391
TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla TheAverageFan is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

There's nothing about Me-Burq-Sa's bio that suggests his stare wouldn't work on large and huge figures. Being immune to certain abilities is one of the benefits of being big in Heroscape.

~TAF

TAF was the Storyteller...
in THE ENEMY'S LAST RETREAT

Reply With Quote
  #4582  
Old April 29th, 2021, 02:48 PM
Astroking112's Avatar
Astroking112 Astroking112 is offline
 
Join Date: March 15, 2011
Location: USA - TX - Dallas
Posts: 3,058
Images: 39
Blog Entries: 59
Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun Astroking112 is a penguin with a machine gun
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
With a name like "Paralyzing Trap," we really don't need to understand the lore to appreciate it. It does something to adjacent figures and has a paralyzing effect, ok cool. It starts to feel off when such a small figure can affect large and huge figures as easily as small ones, especially when similar powers normally cannot.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from, and that was one of my hopes with the vague power name rather than something more specific. Ideally I'd like for the Yokai to inspire players to look more into Japanese mythology themselves to see some really cool stories, but I think that it'd be fair to say that's going on with the other heroes already, so making a small thematic sacrifice for Nure Onna doesn't bother me too much if it smoothes over initial impressions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
There's nothing about Me-Burq-Sa's bio that suggests his stare wouldn't work on large and huge figures. Being immune to certain abilities is one of the benefits of being big in Heroscape.
That's a fair point; my view is that many of those powers to outright bypass defense were trying to avoid making certain heroes obsolete (or counterbalance against squads) whereas Nure Onna's defense debuff is best for targeting said heroes currently. But given that the theme doesn't land well without the background knowledge and she already provides good utility with her species and speed, I don't have a problem with changing it to be more similar to other HS conventions.
Reply With Quote
  #4583  
Old May 9th, 2021, 08:58 PM
MegaSilver's Avatar
MegaSilver MegaSilver is offline
Online HS Season 12 Champ, But Still Three-N-Two
 
Join Date: April 13, 2009
Location: USA - KY - Caneyville
Posts: 13,505
Images: 103
Blog Entries: 39
MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth MegaSilver is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Ok, before I starting working on the customs more, I wanna know if these two minis would work as Vipers? My idea is to have them be female to justify the lack of arms.

Reply With Quote
  #4584  
Old May 10th, 2021, 05:08 PM
superfrog's Avatar
superfrog superfrog is offline
This is merely a joke.
 
Join Date: March 12, 2012
Location: USA - CA - San Gabriel
Posts: 10,895
Images: 7
Blog Entries: 1
superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth superfrog is a man of the cloth
Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I like the minis but they do not say “Heroscape viper” to me at all.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Custom HeroScape Creations > Custom Units & Army Cards
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
C3G Dredd'verse workshop Tornado C3G Project 1043 January 26th, 2021 10:35 AM
MiniatureGeek's Custom Workshop #1 Miniature Geek Other Customization & HS Additions 14 August 20th, 2009 10:37 PM
Sci Fi Terrain by Games Workshop RichardD Custom Terrain & Obstacles 12 August 4th, 2009 02:38 PM
Bad_Calvin's Workshop - update 4-7 bad_calvin Custom Terrain & Obstacles 54 June 5th, 2009 09:09 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:22 AM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.