[Pod 0] Glyph of Movement - Design

[Astroking112]

The Book of Glyph of Movement

Arena of the Valkyrie Master Set



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NAME
Glyph of Movement

Power Glyph
TBA

The glyph used for this glyph is the Glyph of Movement +2 from Arena of the Planeswalkers.

Editing Check

Playtesting:

-Rulings and Clarifications-

TBA

-Strategy, Tactics and Tips-

TBA

[Astroking112]

See here for the beginning of discussion surrounding these new glyphs.

This one is in a bit of a weird spot. We can't really do Valda's "+2 move to all other figures" if we want each of our glyphs to be unique from the official Power Glyphs.

I do have an idea, but it necessitate actually distinguishing these glyphs from the red Power Glyphs and tan Treasure Glyphs (which some people have noted an inclination towards in the past, but we decided against for the sake of keeping AotV true to classic HeroScape).

In keeping true with each color of glyph being considered distinct, we could treat these as normal Power Glyphs with a minor variation: figures don't have to stop when entering their space. This should be pretty intuitive to newer players (my girlfriend forgets that you have to stop on Power Glyphs every so often, and she's played several games with me at this point) and have a minimal impact on how they play when compared to normal glyphs.

What that does do, though, is open this glyph up to a completely unique interpretation:

Glyph of Movement
When a figure enters this space for the first time each turn, it may move 2 additional spaces while moving normally.

The idea being that we can use this glyph as a relatively minor source of defining paths for our maps. By trying to centralize movement through this glyph for a slight boost, we'll have quite a few more options in designing maps and scenarios, and it could actually be interesting for players outside of our box as well.

Any thoughts on this direction? It would probably involve discussing the changes to the other glyphs we have in the process, as well, just to ensure that everything is fine. I don't anticipate it being an issue for Recall or Healing (just stop on the glyph to activate it, I think), and Knowledge isn't problematic already.

[NecroBlade]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

That's certainly new and as you said definitely lets us play with scenarios and map building in an interesting way. Just throwing something else out there in the early stages:

Glyph of Movement
After revealing an Order Marker on an Army Card you control and taking a turn with that card, you may move any figure you control up to 2 spaces.

[Astroking112]

Hmm. I can see that. I like the limit to OM rather than "turn" like our other glyphs, albeit it might be a little less intuitive for newer players. I think that counterintuitive aspect would be worth the sacrifice in this case, as the alternative is madness.

I am coming around to the idea that the black glyphs from our box should have some minor difference about them, though. I'm tempted to revive that conversation in the Pod 0 Thread, but it wasn't attracting much attention there and it is probably most applicable to this glyph in particular. If anyone is lurking and reading this, remember that you're welcome to share your thoughts, even if you aren't in Pod 0.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by NecroBlade

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I'd be super worried about Silver Surfer-esque movement shenanigans.

My suggestion is that it allows only one figure on the revealed card to add +2 to it's move that turn.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by MegaSilver

I'd be super worried about Silver Surfer-esque movement shenanigans.

Oh, Silver Surfer shenanigans are definitely a concern with that route, actually, especially if it works for any Army Card so long as you control the glyph. From testing the Morgan's Riflemen, I found that being able to move, attack, and then move again (even a little bit) can be very frustrating for the opponent.

A potential alternative could be "Before revealing any numbered Order Marker, you may move a figure you control up to 2 spaces." That would still benefit range a lot, but they at least won't be able to ping something and then move away.

My suggestion is that it allows only one figure on the revealed card to add +2 to it's move that turn.

To be clear, are you suggesting that any revealed card can get the +2 bonus, regardless of which figure is standing on the glyph?

If so, then I could see this. Valda is a pretty potent glyph in general, so there's definitely room for a weaker version of it.

[MegaSilver]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

To be clear, are you suggesting that any revealed card can get the +2 bonus, regardless of which figure is standing on the glyph?

If so, then I could see this. Valda is a pretty potent glyph in general, so there's definitely room for a weaker version of it.

Correct. Instead of giving your entire army the +2 movement, only one figure in at a time will get the bonus. And it should be the OM revealed card, so that bonding figures can't double dip.

[Astroking112]

Great. I do like that more than retreading Valda here (and that's a more generally useful form than the +2 boost to figures entering that space if we want it to be strong but not as good as Valda with Squads).

Wording it to where only one squad figure from the card with a revealed OM and not any bonded heroes will get a +2 boost is going to be difficult, I imagine, but it could be possible? It'd be easier to be sure with @Scytale 's input on if that is a feasible direction.

[Captain Stupendous]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

See here for the beginning of discussion surrounding these new glyphs.

This one is in a bit of a weird spot. We can't really do Valda's "+2 move to all other figures" if we want each of our glyphs to be unique from the official Power Glyphs.

I do have an idea, but it necessitate actually distinguishing these glyphs from the red Power Glyphs and tan Treasure Glyphs (which some people have noted an inclination towards in the past, but we decided against for the sake of keeping AotV true to classic HeroScape).

In keeping true with each color of glyph being considered distinct, we could treat these as normal Power Glyphs with a minor variation: figures don't have to stop when entering their space. This should be pretty intuitive to newer players (my girlfriend forgets that you have to stop on Power Glyphs every so often, and she's played several games with me at this point) and have a minimal impact on how they play when compared to normal glyphs.

What that does do, though, is open this glyph up to a completely unique interpretation:

The idea being that we can use this glyph as a relatively minor source of defining paths for our maps. By trying to centralize movement through this glyph for a slight boost, we'll have quite a few more options in designing maps and scenarios, and it could actually be interesting for players outside of our box as well.

Any thoughts on this direction? It would probably involve discussing the changes to the other glyphs we have in the process, as well, just to ensure that everything is fine. I don't anticipate it being an issue for Recall or Healing (just stop on the glyph to activate it, I think), and Knowledge isn't problematic already.

I really don't think creating a new type of glyph is a great idea, for a couple reasons. First, I could see it as confusing to new players. It's already a little tricky to remember how glyphs interact with movement, especially how normal glyphs stop movement and treasure glyphs do not, and adding a third type of glyph that are just like normal ones except they don't stop movement just makes that issue worse.

The second reason is even more important in my opinion, and that is what the creation of a new glyph type would do for the rulebook. I think AotV presents the perfect opportunity to create the most polished and authoritative heroscape rulebook ever seen. The rules surrounding any new glyph types would have to be listed in the rulebook, which I fear could make the rulebook as a whole viewed more as a "custom mod" rather than the authoritative standard for VC going forward. Adding new characters and scenarios is one thing, but creating an entirely new type of glyph changes the fundamental rules of the game in a way that I feel could limit the potential impact of this project.

[Astroking112]

Originally Posted by Captain Stupendous

I really don't think creating a new type of glyph is a great idea, for a couple reasons. First, I could see it as confusing to new players. It's already a little tricky to remember how glyphs interact with movement, especially how normal glyphs stop movement and treasure glyphs do not, and adding a third type of glyph that are just like normal ones except they don't stop movement just makes that issue worse.

I do think that it's a little more complex, but I actually think it's probably going to be easier for newer players if we make a slight tweak like that? Being forced to stop on a Power Glyph (even if you can't end your movement there, which then means that you can't actually enter the space) isn't super intuitive. I also think that it'd be easier to remember something like this than the plethora of rules that come with Treasure Glyphs, which I often still have to check for edge cases.

The difference between different types of glyphs isn't going to matter to people who only have our set, although I guess that it'll be worse if they start playing online games (OHS in particular will probably lead to some mistakes if we do make a new type of glyph, since the difference in colors won't be as apparent). On paper, remembering that red glyphs stop movement and black glyphs don't is about as easy as remembering the difference between water and swamp water, I think.

The second reason is even more important in my opinion, and that is what the creation of a new glyph type would do for the rulebook. I think AotV presents the perfect opportunity to create the most polished and authoritative heroscape rulebook ever seen. The rules surrounding any new glyph types would have to be listed in the rulebook, which I fear could make the rulebook as a whole viewed more as a "custom mod" rather than the authoritative standard for VC going forward. Adding new characters and scenarios is one thing, but creating an entirely new type of glyph changes the fundamental rules of the game in a way that I feel could limit the potential impact of this project.

Hmm. I'm not sure if this is the right place for a "one definitive rulebook?" I don't particularly want to include Treasure Glyph rules, for example, since they're just going to confuse newer players (I would be fine with including a brief paragraph about "Power Glyphs from other HeroScape sets, which do stop movement unlike ____ Glyphs" if we want to make a distinction). Probably one of the best things is that we'll be able to update/refresh the Destructible Object rules for people with the Pillars of Hár, and we have "road terrain" on some of the mats that we'll also include rules for. I think that including the rules for all other terrain types will make the project less accessible to newer players, and people who are willing to buy a box full of custom units are probably going to be fine with also using custom glyphs, especially ones that look so different from Power Glyphs.

That all said, I'm not convinced that a new glyph type is the right way to go here, either (at least without a more compelling direction for them). That route mostly appeals to existing HS players and people familiar with VC, who care about the aesthetic of each glyph having their own color and are looking for new map features. I do think that there's some minor appeal in potentially streamlining the glyphs a bit for players learning the game, but that will probably cause some confusion down the road if the set does its job and gets people into the game.

[Scytale]

Originally Posted by Astroking112

Great. I do like that more than retreading Valda here (and that's a more generally useful form than the +2 boost to figures entering that space if we want it to be strong but not as good as Valda with Squads).

Wording it to where only one squad figure from the card with a revealed OM and not any bonded heroes will get a +2 boost is going to be difficult, I imagine, but it could be possible? It'd be easier to be sure with @Scytale 's input on if that is a feasible direction.

Only one figure can get the boost, even in a multi-turn scenario? Very ugly at best.

[Astroking112]

That's what I had feared. I'd prefer to keep the glyphs relatively simple and easy to interpret for newer players if possible, but given how many different forms of multiple turns per OM there are, limiting it to one boost per OM seems difficult. The best thing that I can think of is some kind of "After revealing a numbered Order Marker, once per turn a figure with that revealed Order Marker on its card may move 2 additional spaces" or something similar, which seems like it could get fairly confusing when it won't make much of a difference to our units. That also doesn't address the concept of multiple turns with the same figure, such as via Overextend or Frenzy, which would get pretty weird.