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  #481  
Old April 14th, 2020, 12:08 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I like the latest version of the Shadow Stalker. Shadow Wraith is more problematic, potentially. Might be too easy to use stacking defense boosts.
How could I limit it to only ever getting +1 even if they’re next to multiple? Is it the “at least one” clause?
Hmm.. maybe "Shadow figures you control that are adjacent to at least one Shadow Wraith adds one to their Defense."
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  #482  
Old April 14th, 2020, 01:25 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I like the latest version of the Shadow Stalker. Shadow Wraith is more problematic, potentially. Might be too easy to use stacking defense boosts.
How could I limit it to only ever getting +1 even if they’re next to multiple? Is it the “at least one” clause?
Hmm.. maybe "Shadow figures you control that are adjacent to at least one Shadow Wraith adds one to their Defense."
Yeah, I think that would do it right? I think that still gives them value to draft and use alongside the others without it being crazy good by stacking them or even JUST running wraiths and moving them in pods of 7 haha
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  #483  
Old April 14th, 2020, 02:10 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Yeah, I think that would do it right? I think that still gives them value to draft and use alongside the others without it being crazy good by stacking them or even JUST running wraiths and moving them in pods of 7 haha
+1 Defense is valuable, and the 3 Attack is ok enough to warrant using them.
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  #484  
Old April 14th, 2020, 03:24 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Yeah, I think that would do it right? I think that still gives them value to draft and use alongside the others without it being crazy good by stacking them or even JUST running wraiths and moving them in pods of 7 haha
+1 Defense is valuable, and the 3 Attack is ok enough to warrant using them.
Right, I agree. That and their Phase allows them to have some pretty versatile positioning. I forgot to update their price to 25 though. I think they're on-par with the Binder in that they're filling more of a "Role-playing" position as a situational supporter rather than one of the main offensive threats.
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  #485  
Old April 14th, 2020, 05:21 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Just remember how annoying Isamu, Spiderman, and Venom can be when they get a hot D20. The harder you make it to that get out jail free card, the less annoying it will be when facing them.

Edit: I was on the previous page, and didn't realize the conversation had moved away from the D20 ability.
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  #486  
Old April 14th, 2020, 05:34 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Just remember how annoying Isamu, Spiderman, and Venom can be when they get a hot D20. The harder you make it to that get out jail free card, the less annoying it will be when facing them.

Edit: I was on the previous page, and didn't realize the conversation had moved away from the D20 ability.
No worries, I agree...but Isamu is actually a great comparison here because he’s 1L, 3 att, 1Def 9+ roll for 10pts and for 20 more points the only differences are the Stalker gets 1 more def but has to roll on an 11 or higher. Harder to “vanish” but a little harder to kill if it fails and still 3X the price...so while I agree it may need to come up, they are far from the versatility of Spider-Man and Venom who have multiple lives and more defense to deal with.
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  #487  
Old April 14th, 2020, 05:46 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Just remember how annoying Isamu, Spiderman, and Venom can be when they get a hot D20. The harder you make it to that get out jail free card, the less annoying it will be when facing them.

Edit: I was on the previous page, and didn't realize the conversation had moved away from the D20 ability.
In my experience, the bonus movement those units get is huge when it comes to survivability and annoyance. Doing so minimizes the number of attacks they have to endure, which makes those d20 rolls so much more valuable. The Stalker has to stand there and take all the attacks even if it avoids the first, which is deadly for such a low-defense unit.
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  #488  
Old April 19th, 2020, 11:39 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Updated versions of the additional shadows. These "feel right". The theme and abilities are on, the points are on (so far in testing) and their roles are unique and useful in the faction. Continued testing will refine the stats and points...but so far, this feels like the sweet spot. Any comments are welcome, and any playtesting even more so


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  #489  
Old May 11th, 2020, 02:57 PM
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Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is online now
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

A lot of people have commented lately and it's thrown my head for a loop. I've taken to heart a lot of the feedback and done some introspection of my own on the design vision for A-N.

I think I've struck a strong balance between what I'm looking for in terms of power level and theme. Overextend is a simple way for him to be recklessly ravenous and hurt himself doing so, while keeping it from being overpowered...but that paired with his Frenzy for blood makes decisions a little tougher on the player. He must attack all adjacent figures makes him tougher to place, but it's thematic and can be adjusted based on the roll to hit it. The potential is still really good with his ability to get to attack all adjacent figures and overextend with 5 dice...but that's just max potential. Seeing how often he can pull it off will be how I strike the price and balance.

I'm going to start testing the below design. Any comments are still appreciated.

For reference, the following are things I'll be looking for in testing to determine the power level and consider changes...though the powers themselves I'm going to stay set on:

1) How often does he get the Frenzy?
Too often = Increase the roll but potentially the theme fails if he's not getting it very much.
Not often enough = Lower the roll to increase the theme but at the cost of too strong a power
--> lowering the roll to increase his theme could be counterbalanced by lowering the attack to 4 so that it's more frequent he attacks everyone, but not as deadly when he does

2) How strong is Overextend when combined with Frenzy? How often does he max out on kills? What is his average? Does he end up taking more wounds on average when he tries to overextend?

In Summary, there are really 2 things I'm looking for: how the roll of the frenzy effects the theme of the unit and whether or not to bring it up and down, and the power level of the attack value at 4 vs 5 when adjusting the frenzy roll...always keeping in mind the overextend interaction...and then how that relates to point cost.

Anyway...here he is.

@Scytale a rules question (you can PM if you think it's more "appropriate"). How does Overextend factor into his interaction with a certain unit? Does their ability carry over into his additional turn?
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  #490  
Old May 11th, 2020, 03:00 PM
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Love the demon guy! The hunger ability makes perfect sense, my only suggestion is make him 10 pts more, so 135 pts. 5 attack is no joke.

"Man, some people on the internet would complain about a chocolate sundae delivered to them by a Victoria's Secret model on their paid day off from work"
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  #491  
Old May 11th, 2020, 03:13 PM
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Scytale Scytale is offline
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
@Scytale a rules question (you can PM if you think it's more "appropriate"). How does Overextend factor into his interaction with a certain unit? Does their ability carry over into his additional turn?
Their ability would only matter for the initial turn, not the Overextend one. Though the fact that it's not obvious is a red flag for an common interaction.

Right now, A-N looks like mostly an improvement over the Ogre Warhulk.

I certainly appreciate your willingness to make changes, even to the point of re-imagining the whole design. I did like a lot of what you had, before, though. Can I suggest something?

Life: 6
Move: 6
Attack: 5
Defense: 3

Ravenous Frenzy
After moving and before attacking, you may place 1 wound marker on this card. If you do, Agrith-Naar may attack any or all figures adjacent to it. After attacking, if there are no figures adjacent to Agrith-Naar, you may remove 1 wound marker from this card.

Flying
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  #492  
Old May 11th, 2020, 04:01 PM
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Sir Heroscape Sir Heroscape is online now
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Re: Sir Heroscape's customs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Life: 6
Move: 6
Attack: 5
Defense: 3

Ravenous Frenzy
After moving and before attacking, you may place 1 wound marker on this card. If you do, Agrith-Naar may attack any or all figures adjacent to it. After attacking, if there are no figures adjacent to Agrith-Naar, you may remove 1 wound marker from this card.

Flying
To quote one of my favorite posts by D_S, this is how I feel about that suggestion ^

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper View Post
this solution is so perfectly Scytale. This is his aesthetic: a modest tweak to well-established mechanics to encourage a dramatically different play style. I don't think any of the rest of us would have come up with this solution in a hundred years, but it is right down Scy's design alley.
I kind of hate changing him again after finally landing on something I felt pretty good about...but I also can't deny that that suggestion is kind of the perfect balance of what I was looking for in terms of theme, decision making and power level (with the exception of should it say "must attack"...I feel like that was a thematic sticking point for a lot of people)...so thank you!...I might just have to adopt that version entirely lol.
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