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  #6145  
Old January 14th, 2019, 07:56 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Soontir Van by @Arch-vile

The Mariedians are built around a synergy web that keeps the front lines filled. Does Soontir Van’s Move Enhancement add enough to the faction to earn a spot in Valhalla?

Balance

As a single-attacking ranged hero (without bonding options), Soontir Van has only a few comparison points. One easy one is Zetacron. They have comparable attack (4 vs. Deadly Shot 2) and survivability (4/2 vs. 2/4). Soontir Van has a defensive power and a cheerleader power, has 3 less range, and costs 10 more points.

Another comparison is Garrett Burns. Here, they have similar survivability, and Soontir swaps Quick Draw for Move Enhancement. Garrett has more range, but Soontir again always has 4 attack. Comparatively, Soontir is easily better (but that might be the outlaw’s fault).

Theme

I like the reuse of Exosuit here, and Mariedian Move Enhancement is a thematic way to boost the M-43s (who major in movement and board control, and minor in attack output). I’m not sure I buy 2 defense, to be honest. I know the suit improves the survivability overall, but it seems like he shouldn’t have less baseline defense than his unarmored counterparts.

Creativity

The only new thing here is the Move Enhancement. It’s not too unlike Hrognak’s Aura, but it is a good way to show his Leader-like qualities, and it’s certainly preferable to an attack boost.

Playability

I tested Soontir Van both with and without Rendar Fy. They actually worked pretty well together, but since Rendar hasn’t passed yet, I won’t go into much detail in that interaction.

Most of my games with Soontir followed a predictable pattern: I’d put him near the front of the start zone, and use Guerilla Tactics to ensure that I always had a few M-43s adjacent to Soontir to rocket out of the SZ when the time came. Once most of my M-43s were advanced, I’d start moving Soontir with Guerilla Tactics as well, using him as a mobile launching pad for my M-43s. This was also especially helpful when paired with a hero: Jarek Guy and Rendar Fy both benefited from what I called “handcuffing,” where I’d move them with Guerilla Tactics and always keep them adjacent.

Despite his attack of 4, I never really wanted to put OMs on Soontir. He was much more valuable propelling my M-43s to height, where they could potentially get 3 attacks of 3. In almost all cases, even 3x2 is better than 1x4. To compound that, Soontir’s short range made it hard to get attacks without moving him (which would screw up the mobile launch pad strategy).

Soontir was relegated to getting 1 or 2 turns per game, depending on how long Exosuit kept him alive. His points would likely have been better spent going to another squad of M-43s, or adding Jarek Guy or the B-11s.

Because of that dynamic, his 4 attack started seeming more and more out of place to me. Not to the miniature, and not to his power level, but to the design of the card, and its place in the Mariedian faction.

Summary

I thought Soontir was a good design, but there were some sticking points that left me feeling ultimately unsatisfied. I quite liked the movement boost, but I think it would be better on a lower-cost hero with a lower attack.

I vote to induct Soontir Van into the Soldiers of Valhalla, but I hope to see him back in some form if he fails.

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  #6146  
Old January 14th, 2019, 08:43 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Uzog by Kinseth

He's a heartbreaker
Dream maker, a skull taker
But can he mess around with the SoV?

--

Balance

Balance-wise Uzog seems fine. He is basically comparable to other bonders in his point range stat-wise and while his cheerleading ability has a bit higher potential than most, it is balanced out by the need to activate it with kills and the chance of him missing out on moving while doing so.

--

Theme

The theme feels fine here, he's a creepy skull-taking monster man and the powers work in that thematic angle well. Looks wise, the mini manages to match the Yuuzhan Vong used for the other Durgeth quite well outside of the larger size. Personally I don't have a problem with the size difference though, if anything I enjoy the added layer to the species it brings, and there are plenty of valid ways to explain it even if it ends up that Uzog is just the Durgeth equivalent of André the Giant .

--

Creativity

Uzog basically just has one power separated out into two bits here, but it works well that way and Skull harvesting for fun and profit is certainly new for Heroscape,

--

Playability

Though he isn't the worst option for a stand alone hero in his point bracket, Uzog bonds (sometimes anyway) with the Durgeth Ravagers, so army builds with them are where he really shines. Since both he and the Ravagers require kills to activate their powers, they have a rather feast or famine feel to them as a team. If you get enough kills early on, they can snowball into a dominating performance. However, a missed kill at the wrong time on Uzog's part can kill your momentum quite a bit and a missed Ravager kill might cost you a game. Between that hit or miss nature and the Ravagers' relatively high match-up and map dependency, it was a little difficult to get a bead on Uzog. Overall all though, I never found his highs too alarmingly high or his lows too crushingly low.

--

Summary

Uzog is a nasty beast to face on the battlefield, but I feel like he had enough limits to keep him in check. I think he'll be a fine addition to the SoV ranks.

I vote to induct Uzog to the SoV.


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  #6147  
Old January 14th, 2019, 08:46 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I love your song lyric intros, SW. Now I've got a song stuck in my head

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  #6148  
Old January 14th, 2019, 08:49 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

We interrupt this sudden surge of review action to bring you a quick to review Masha Shingai. Now back to your original programming.
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  #6149  
Old January 14th, 2019, 09:34 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

On Masha Shingai, his power-level seems high to me. Like he's basically a variation of Crixus (already a pretty good figure) that also radiates his powers out to other people... while costing the same as Crixus. Like he feels like he could easily be 90 points worth of figure just in a clean-up type roll, but he's also got a bunch of potential as more of a cheerleader type for the right army. And he's part of two different factions that could easily get some nice synergies in the future, one of which already gives him a way to dodge Awakened Terror activating while still taking turns if it needs to be done.

Also not a big fan of a Samurai without Counter Strike, it's a pattern that's been broken before, but it was a mistake to do so IMO (though everything about Hamtaro was a mistake). I can live it when this guy at least has a thematically similar power though.

The big thing for me is the attack subtraction bit though, that's a dangerous mechanic to play with when it isn't limited the way the Skull Demons are (where it can't stack). If something like that is to be done, I'm kinda meh on it existing at all really, I feel it needs to command something of a premium price and I'm not sure if the OM bit is enough when the actual point cost is so cheap.

I don't like to vote down for point cost reasons, unless it's just ridiculous obvious anyway, but I'm going to give a here. Not so much for balance reasons, but more so that I'm just not comfortable with an attack subtraction power like that in that point bracket.

Random rules intent question, the wound from Fiery Retribution is coming from Masha right? Like it's not meant to let a Tagawa get an experience counter for his buddies with his dying breath or anything right?


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  #6150  
Old January 15th, 2019, 01:12 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

That's 4 upvotes on Uzog, if I'm not mistaken.

An early congrats to @Kinseth !

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  #6151  
Old January 15th, 2019, 01:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Uzog by @Kinseth has received 4 Yea votes to induct (Scytale, BiggaBullfrog, wriggz, and Soundwarp SG-1) and moves forward in the process.
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  #6152  
Old January 15th, 2019, 03:46 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The scourge of the Durgeth is unleashed! Congrats, @Kinseth !!
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  #6153  
Old January 15th, 2019, 03:50 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thanks guys! Very exciting!

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

Looking for a C3V/SOV miniature? Try one of these sites.
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  #6154  
Old January 15th, 2019, 04:06 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Congratulations on Uzog (extremely likely) passing, @Kinseth !

After discussing Masha's price point with my group, I've decided to make a slight amendment to my submission. Because many people (both judges and otherwise) have expressed a concern about his price, and because I'm not sure how plentiful his sculpt will still be if he ends up failing because he's a little too strong later on, I've decided to increase his point cost by 20 points. I'd hate to see him fail for being too competitive, and I think that he's still fun and unique enough to be usable at 110 points.

I've gone through the process of building multiple Samurai armies with him at various price ranges, and I've come to the conclusion that most of the builds will still be possible at this price point, so it really mostly impacts his usefulness outside of his faction, when people might be looking to take him with better units. Notably, it does also remove the Raelin, Masha, Tomoe Gozen, Tagawa Samurai, Kozuke Samurai 500 point build, which I've found to be the most competitive army featuring him, only becoming possible at 520 points or higher. While I didn't find him to be broken at 90 points, the Samurai are naturally a bit swingy because of their Unique Squad nature, and I'd rather price him less competitively if it increases his chances of getting in.

I've gone ahead and edited this into my original submission, but if I need to make a new one with the new price point than I am willing to post it again as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
On Masha Shingai, his power-level seems high to me. Like he's basically a variation of Crixus (already a pretty good figure) that also radiates his powers out to other people... while costing the same as Crixus. Like he feels like he could easily be 90 points worth of figure just in a clean-up type roll, but he's also got a bunch of potential as more of a cheerleader type for the right army. And he's part of two different factions that could easily get some nice synergies in the future, one of which already gives him a way to dodge Awakened Terror activating while still taking turns if it needs to be done.
Kato Katsuro's Command is a nice way of getting around Awakened Terror activating if you want to, and I like that you can still place OM1 on Masha to get it activated before switching over to Kato, but that comes at a 200 point cost. Kato in general doesn't play terribly well with the Samurai outside of massive games (where Masha's aura will have less of an effect and still demand Order Markers), and Masha brings less to the Ashigaru than the Kozuke Samurai do.

I actually like him as an addition to the (currently) small demon faction. I don't know what C3V has planned for them, but I hope that Masha's OM requirements and the fact that he doesn't work too well with the Mezzodemons' short range or follow Valkrill won't alter any of their plans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwarp SG-1 View Post
Random rules intent question, the wound from Fiery Retribution is coming from Masha right? Like it's not meant to let a Tagawa get an experience counter for his buddies with his dying breath or anything right?
Correct. The Tagawa Samurai can't get experience markers after being avenged by Fiery Retribution, since the wound is dealt by Masha.
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  #6155  
Old January 15th, 2019, 04:08 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

110 is fine by me.

My vote stands.

customs/maps/c3v/sov

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google sheets:
ohs link generator/attack outcomes

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  #6156  
Old January 15th, 2019, 04:11 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Since it's a sizeable change, I'm going to treat this as a full resubmission and start the voting process over.

to review Masha
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