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  #5941  
Old October 10th, 2018, 01:04 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
The range/attack combo does stick out to me when compared to the similarly-armed M-43. Of course, the counterpoint would be the last B-11, who hits for 5.
This guy is ostensibly higher-tech than the M-43s. It stands to reason he could have a better-but-similar-looking gun.

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  #5942  
Old October 10th, 2018, 01:07 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Two words: Noisy Cricket.


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  #5943  
Old October 10th, 2018, 01:08 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I don't have a problem with the Pistol being more powerful.

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

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  #5944  
Old October 10th, 2018, 01:10 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Moreally scifi and expanding a fun faction. count me up.


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  #5945  
Old October 10th, 2018, 01:10 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Two words: Noisy Cricket.
This sounds like a rousing game of a traditional British sport to me.

Google suggests it's a small but powerful gun from MiB, though, so that's probably what you were going for.

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  #5946  
Old October 10th, 2018, 03:01 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

At 50 points I feel that Soontir Van would outclass similarly priced solo heroes, not even considering his Mariedian synergies. I did consider lowering to 60, but I felt that pricing more conservatively was wise, considering that Soontir Van will buff all future Mariedians as well (including Capsocrates's Rendar Fy). I don't feel he's too weak at 70, personally. He's naturally a bit more swingy with his Exosuit and low defense.
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  #5947  
Old October 10th, 2018, 04:00 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn View Post
4 base Attack with that pistol is out of line with every other pistol-strapped unit I can think of
This is the part that gives me pause. I don't see the thematic or mechanical justification.


I'm going to go ahead and vote , but I would not hesitate for an attack of 2. An attack of 3 would be in line with the Krav, Nakitas, etc. This would also easily justify a point drop to resolve the point value + power-level concerns I'm seeing.

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  #5948  
Old October 10th, 2018, 05:07 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Kha by kolakoski

Ullar has vipers, Ullar has Merry Men, Ullar even has humanoid D&D reptilians. Somehow Kha is not a viper, not really like the other rogues, and not a lizardfolk. Does this misfit fit the canon?

Balance

Kha splits the difference between a melee hero and a ranged one. He doesn’t have a high attack, but has the potential to do massive damage in a single turn if the rolls line up properly. Because of this straddling of realms, there’s not a great comparison for Kha. A ranged attack of 3 is definitely within reason (James Murphy can do it explosion-style for 75 points), the possibility for a multi-attack is as well (Martial La Hire can do it with even more dice for 70 points), and a d20-to-add-wounds-if-you-dealt-wounds power also falls in the price range (Estivara, a not very good figure, has that and a potential insta-kill for 80 points). So, we find similar (but more potent) powers across the 70-80 point range. We’ll just have to explore whether the combination is too much.

Theme

The figure is obviously not a lizardfolk, for anybody who might think that from the head-on view. More angles reveal that he looks very serpent-y. I like the serpent/poison connection, and Kha certainly looks roguish enough.

Creativity

No new powers on this card. All straight copies (Double Assault from Evar Scarcarver, Poison Weapons from the Deepwyrm Drow, and Disengage from everybody and their mother). That said, Kha manages to be unlike any Heroscape unit I’ve played. The interplay of the powers is quite nice.

Playability

Kha’s best utility is with Nottingham Brigands. Getting an attack of 3 (or 4) after his turn gives Kha the flexibility to go after big targets if he wants to. Together with Disengage, Kha usually has a few choices on his turn: stay back and take a shot, or charge forward to put pressure on an opponent’s hero. Sometimes he can get the two-for-one: Run forward, engage (and hopefully kill) the screening figure, and still take a shot at the hero.

Poison Weapons gives Kha a distinctive hero-killing flavor, and sure enough, he shines against hero-heavy armies. The elf wizard pod is one of his favorite targets, as they have low enough defense to make Poison Weapons come relatively often.

Despite his anti-hero abilities, Kha can hold his own against squads, as well. With brigands backing, they can manage 3 attacks of 3 (or 3 attacks of 4 from height), which is generally enough to thin out many squad threats.

The only thing that holds Kha’s offensive output in check is his survivability. Compare the 3 heroes I mentioned above in the Balance section. Each one has better survivability. And it gets worse: Kha works best offensively when he can get adjacent to a hero. But that sets him up to die quickly. Say you blow Kha past some 10th to get a few shots on Raelin. That’s all well and good, but you’ve now almost guaranteed 4 attacks of at least 3 on Kha the next turn. For 6 or 8 dice against Raelin, is it worth it? Hard to say.

Similar scenarios unfold across several matchups: Jarek Guy, Pel, MBS, Gilbert, they can all be juicy targets for Poison Weapons. But the opportunity cost to set it up (thanks to @Dysole for introducing me to that term earlier today) can be pretty high, since it can take as few as one or two attacks to bring Kha down.

Summary

Kha is very fun to play as an addition to the Merry Men. He has a surprisingly novel playstyle, despite having no new powers. The interaction of the three powers gives lots of decision-making, and the stats show some much-needed restraint.

I vote to induct Kha into the Soldiers of Valhalla

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  #5949  
Old October 10th, 2018, 07:34 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn View Post
4 base Attack with that pistol is out of line with every other pistol-strapped unit I can think of
This is the part that gives me pause. I don't see the thematic or mechanical justification.


I'm going to go ahead and vote , but I would not hesitate for an attack of 2. An attack of 3 would be in line with the Krav, Nakitas, etc. This would also easily justify a point drop to resolve the point value + power-level concerns I'm seeing.
I'll offer some of my design notes from playing him. Mechanically, a single attack of 2 is worthless. My original design had an attack of 2 with double attack, which was usable, but he was (almost) never worth an Order Marker because the M-43 could do the same thing except with a third attack & the benefits of Guerrilla Tactics. He was also more boring, as people noted in the Pre-SoV thread. A single attack of 4 isn't anything extraordinary, but it offers something new to the Mariedians. There's the occasional matchup or situation where Order Markers on Soontir Van are really worthwhile (against Skull Demons or figures with Tough, for example). An attack of 3 drops him back down into never-worth-an-order-marker territory. Sure, I could reduce attack and add a third power to increase his offensive output, but that just is overdesigning. Why create a power for a mechanical reason when you can just adjust stats to achieve the same thing?

I think he's quite balanced at 70 FWIW; if I thought he was too weak I wouldn't hesitate to drop him. I should probably act more confident in my posts.
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  #5950  
Old October 11th, 2018, 06:48 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I've been mulling over Soontir Van. I love the card except for the high attack since the thematic justification doesn't seem to be there, and I think the fact that half of the other commenters have noted that it seems off is significant. The argument that he wouldn't be worth an OM without it doesn't do it for me, since as a cheerleader he'll be used more for his boost than his attack anyway. At the same time, I do see precedent for it to an extent with Atlaga and his base 4 attack. After thinking on it through the day I believe it's a small enough issue that I'll vote to review here.
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  #5951  
Old October 11th, 2018, 07:16 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Soontir Van has received 4 Yea votes to review (superfrog, Scytale, and wriggz, and BiggaBullfrog) and moves forward in the process.
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  #5952  
Old October 11th, 2018, 07:58 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Atlaga has a crossbow. I think the concerns were with the fact that it was some sort of handgun.

The argument seems silly to me though when crossbows, bows and arrows, javelins, and spears can do base attack of 4, but a handgun, possibly even tech advanced handgun, should not be allowed base 4 attack. *shrug*
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