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  #5761  
Old June 15th, 2018, 02:49 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

When I said Kha "just" passed that stage, I mean that was his most recent milestone. We'll wait and see how the reviews come in.

For Viceron, he was submitted three times. The third version was the same as the first version, but with a cheaper point cost.

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  #5762  
Old June 15th, 2018, 03:04 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion


Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
When I said Kha "just" passed that stage, I mean that was his most recent milestone. We'll wait and see how the reviews come in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post

For Viceron, he was submitted three times. The third version was the same as the first version, but with a cheaper point cost.

Wow! I can see where this might be/is going . . . I won't hold my breath . . .







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  #5763  
Old June 15th, 2018, 07:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

For those interested, here are some stats:

Of the 190 submissions, 91 passed to the next phase (48%).

Of those 91, 81 passed the first UF review (89%).

Of the remaining 81, 8 are still in process. Of the other 73, 20 moved on to final UF review (27%).

Of those 20, 1 is still in process. Of the other 19, 19 passed final UF review (100%).

Overall, of the 190 submissions, 9 are still in process. Of the other 181, 19 have been inducted. That's just over 10%.
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  #5764  
Old June 16th, 2018, 11:53 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post

Well met!

How did this go down? Following the links on the second page of this thread, the first version failed to pass; the second version passed - but they're identical.


The 130 point cost to 150 point cost is a difference
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  #5765  
Old June 25th, 2018, 05:27 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Ixe has chosen to step down as an SoV Judge. His regular and insightful reviews have been an asset to the project and will be missed. His review of Tetraites is in process and will be his final act as a Judge.

The last time we called for submissions for a Judge position we received multiple worthy applicants, but there was only one position open at the time. While we decided to invite BiggaBullfrog, Tai-Pan was a close second. He has agreed to join the project as our newest Judge. We welcome him and look forward to his contributions.
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  #5766  
Old June 25th, 2018, 05:28 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Congrats, @Tai-Pan !

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  #5767  
Old June 25th, 2018, 08:22 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Beakface Archer and Beakface Rogue by Sir Heroscape

The Raptorian faction was started in the SoV with the Sneaks and continued in the C3V with the Warwitch. This common hero tandem seeks to join that budding fanscape faction.

Balance

Both of these common heroes sit at the common hero “sweet spot” of 25 points. They certainly don’t have the raw stats of a Drow Chainfighter or Dumutef Guard, and they’re not auto-include cheerleaders like a Swog Rider. What they do have is a flexible synergistic bonding arrangement and the ability to get multiple attacks per turn. The worst that can be said here is that a Beakface Rogue outclasses a Sahuagin Raider (they have the same stats, and the Rogue’s defense bonus and attack bonus come into play more often). But FishSticks was already low on the Common Hero totem pole, and still proves to be better in a watery-dungeon-crawl-type battle.

Theme

These guys hit some of the same notes thematically as the Sneaks, which works pretty well. They don’t have big stats, they have Glide, one has a Flocking power, one has Evasive. The Improved Flocking power works a bit different thematically, since it often looks more like an Archer directing the battle from a relatively safe vantage point, rather than a Sneak inspiring other Raptorians to join it in combat. This works intuitively for me, since the Archer’s Flocking has more options and nuance to it.

Creativity

Again, this design does a good job of building off of the existing Raptorian faction. Reusing Sneak Attack here plays into the Rogue’s roguishness, but is a nice touch of restraint to not add too much flair. Improved Flocking is the main draw here on the Archer, and I have to admit that I struggled with whether I liked the power or not. I wasn’t sure I liked calling it Improved Flocking when the power had a different trigger and more options. But as I played it more, I appreciated that it had one of the same mechanics as flocking (move 2 Raptorians 6 spaces), which helped me remember how it played.

I also very much appreciated that the stats of the two cards are the same (except for the range). It felt natural that they had the same move and defense and attack, and that was a nice touch.

Playability

Sir H suggested an army in his submission post, and I tried that one out several times (Quorik Warwitch, Beakface Sneaks x6, Beakface Archers x4, Beakface Rogues x4). I ended up being frustrated with the Archers after these games. The Sneaks wanted OMs at the beginning of the game, and I never felt like Archers really got their chance to shine. You’d never want to use the move 2 Raptorians part of Improved Flocking if you could use the Sneaks, get 2 attacks of 3 instead of a single attack of 2, and still get the same movement power.

In theory, you could engage your opponent with Sneaks, and then put OMs on the Archer, to take turns with the Rogue who had been moving up the whole time. But Sneaks die really fast when they’re engaged, and the timing gets really tricky. After trying this type of army composition, I decided I needed to try some other way to play the Beakfaces. Too many cooks spoil the broth, and too many OM sinks mean no card plays up to its potential.

So I began experimenting with a different army core, one without Sneaks. I like having more Archers than Rogues, and adding the Warwitch is a must. I’d often run 6x Archers, 4x Rogues, and Miss Q for a 360 point army core. It could be slimmed down to 5x/3x for 310 points, or expanded to 8x/5x for 435.

This was my favorite way to play the Beakfaces. In some ways, it felt like a hybrid between playing Sneaks and playing Hoplitrons. Archers and Rogues work well together, because Archers can engage an opponent to set up Sneak Attack. On turns where a Sneak Attack can’t be set up, the Archers opt for the movement power instead, and move up 2 other heroes. The Warwitch can be used as a lockdown defender while Rogues get Sneak Attacks, or fire off Orb of Pain when that doesn’t work.

In prime position, an OM on an Archer lets you choose either an attack of 2 and an attack of 5 (with Sneak Attack) or 4 attacks of 2 (with Orb of Pain).

The Rogues live in an odd space where they hate to be engaged because of Evasive, but need somebody to be engaged for them to get their Sneak Attacks. You hate for that to be Archers, since they’re a limited commodity, but sometimes that becomes the best play. You also hate for it to be Rogues since they might die before getting a chance at their own Sneak Attack, but it often works decently well against single-attacking heroes. That leaves Miss Q, who also likes to be unengaged so she can use her special attack.

None of your options there are great, (and Sneak Attack is often very important for cracking through your opponent’s Big Guys), but the versatility of the Archer’s Improved Flocking makes it easy to choose which works best for the current situation.

A final note: the Rogue bonds with the Nottingham Brigand, but isn’t a great choice there. Brigands have a decent attack of their own, and their bonding takes place before their own turn, so it’s hard to set up the Sneak Attacks.

Summary

The Beakfaces work well together, but not super well with the Sneaks. Luckily, the three-card army core of Archers, Rogues, and the Q is a tight and fun army, if a bit complicated to use at times.

I vote to induct the Beakface Archer and the Beakface Rogue into the Soldiers of Valhalla.

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  #5768  
Old June 26th, 2018, 12:05 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Bol by @The Dewk

Aquilla: Bol, are you ready for this, champ?
Bol: I've been ready for this my whole life!
Aquilla: Then you take us out on the field.

Balance
When looking at balance, any 10 point figure will be instantly compared to Isumu and Otonashi. While Bol does outclass Otonashi due to more targets for Ankle Shank than Attack the Wild, Otonashi still has use in a tricky or Kantono Daishi army. For the most Isumu is a better bet in a double blind match up, but Bol is a tempting alternative especially if you believe you will be facing large/huge figure or are running a hero heavy army. Despite Bol’s potential to earn back his points he is just as likely to never be activated if you are the winning side, or get sniped out before he ever makes an attack if you are on the losing one. Overall 10 points is well balanced for Bol.

Theme:
Playing Bol reminded me of Rudy of Notre Dame fame. I felt like the little goblin just wanted to overcome the stereotype of his race and is looking for any way to prove himself on the field of battle. Opportunism is his version of “put me in coach” and is his only chance to get in on the game. The miniatures posture, Disengage and Ankle Shank make him less sneaky and more determined to attack the largest and meanest enemy he can find as if this is the only way he can prove his worth. I like Aquilla as a fit since this behaviour seems brave like rather than traitorous and I’ve always seen Aquilla as the “opportunistic”, leveraging advantage wherever possible. However, Bol is still a Goblin so Tricky and Rouge (a grey class to be sure) are both fitting.

Creativity:
For the most part the design of Bol’s card is tight. Opportunities is an excellent power for a 10 point hero, since it has potential power and gives the losing play a glimmer of hope akin to the D20 roll of Isumu’s Vanish. Personally, I think Disengage is a little redundant since it is mostly only used if Bol is engaged and there is a large/Huge figure within 6 moves, and as a 10 point figure any attack from Bol before the rest of your army is destroyed should be considered a bonus. Disengage notwithstanding, 4 powers doesn’t bother me as there are single powers more complex then all 4 combined. As indicated in theme I like the creativity of a somewhat redeemable goblin fighting for Aquilla. All together Bol feels like a classic scape unit.

Playability:
In the spirit of full disclosure, I will state I don’t like fillers. A big part of Heroscape to me is crafting cohesive armies within a specific point total. I believe filler units undermine that aspect of the game, but Isumu exists so here we are. That said Bol is a cool little guy and like Isumu before might actually make you happy that you have 10 points left over to fill up.

I could regal you with tales of Bol’s victories such as the time he finished off a wound Mimring or stood tall against a Wolf of Badru pounce, however for every victory there was a couple of matches where he did nothing. I really liked Opportunism, since it allowed me to get Bol out of the gates on a “wasted turn” and set up a speed bump on the way to my start zone, albeit a minor one. As mentioned if you ever use Bol when you are winning, I think you are playing him wrong, but he does have the chance to help you out a tiny bit, which is what you would expect from 10 points.

As for Bol’s uses outside of 10 point filler unit, I did test him with the Brigands, and found them a poor fit. The class Rogue is there for thematic reasons, and not for use with the Brigands, since unless you are down your last Brigand and have no other heroes left, he is your weakest choice for an attack. Also as common heroes, Brigands do not benefit Opportunism and heroes rarely get Order Makers in a Rogue build. I threw Bol in with Urk and Skull Brutes and liked the addition there. With this combination you can move Bol up with the Brutes using Mob Swarm, and his 10 points were more than expendable to save a 25 point Bugbear.

Summary:
Bol really grew on me, leaving me happy to have 10 points left over for the little guy. While not as game changing as Isumu, Bol has some clever tricks and a nice underdog theme. So let players cheer his name, if only for a fleeting moment… Bol! Bol! Bol!

I vote to induct Bol into the SoV.


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  #5769  
Old June 26th, 2018, 01:03 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion


Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post

A final note: the Rogue bonds with the Nottingham Brigand, but isn’t a great choice there. Brigands have a decent attack of their own, and their bonding takes place before their own turn, so it’s hard to set up the Sneak Attacks.




In general, a hybrid army of Rogues, a Special Attacker, and a screen gives the Beakface Rogue the best chance for success, IMHO. For example:

Rogues and 'Reavers
120 Kaemon
120 Deathreavers x 3
105 Brigand x 3
80 Raelin
75 Beakface Rogue x 3
500, 20 spaces

Lots of opportunities for Sneak Attack 3, generally with Rogue Bonding.



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  #5770  
Old June 26th, 2018, 01:10 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Well, you're not wrong there by any stretch. But when you start an army with 200 points of Rats and Raelin it's hard to go wrong. Even in this army I might prefer swapping your Rogues out for 2 Brigands or 1 Brigand and another squad of Rats.

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Old June 26th, 2018, 01:33 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion



Well met!


Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post

A final note: the Rogue bonds with the Nottingham Brigand, but isn’t a great choice there. Brigands have a decent attack of their own, and their bonding takes place before their own turn, so it’s hard to set up the Sneak Attacks.




In general, a hybrid army of Rogues, a Special Attacker, and a screen gives the Beakface Rogue the best chance for success, IMHO. For example:

Rogues and 'Reavers
120 Kaemon
120 Deathreavers x 3
105 Brigand x 3
80 Raelin
75 Beakface Rogue x 3
500, 20 spaces

Lots of opportunities for Sneak Attack 3, generally with Rogue Bonding.


Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrog View Post
Well, you're not wrong there by any stretch. But when you start an army with 200 points of Rats and Raelin it's hard to go wrong. Even in this army I might prefer swapping your Rogues out for 2 Brigands or 1 Brigand and another squad of Rats.

Why the "But . . . "? In this army, I imagine dok would swap out all the Rogues for Q9. In your Beakface army, dok would undoubtedly swap all of them out for more powerful figures. The idea here, I thought, was to maximize the Beakface Rogues' usefulness in an army, given that you're drafting them at all. If you were going to field them at all, how would you use them?


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  #5772  
Old June 26th, 2018, 01:54 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Beakface rogues are best with the Archers and Quorick. The Brigands are best with other Brigands and Arthur. Just like Bol is best as a filler unit or with a URK/Brute build, rather than a Brigand build or Marcus and Parminio are better with Sacred band than Parmino and Valguard.

Certainly synergies exist, but some are red herrings rather than indication of army construction. You wouldn't mix Marro Warriors with Marro Dividers just because they are both Marro or Venoc Vipers with Armoc Vipers just because they are both vipers. The same holds somewhat true with the Beakfaces.


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