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  #5605  
Old February 27th, 2018, 11:54 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Yeah, I'm with bmon here, with the difference that I would actually be strongly in favor of using repaints/reworks of ROTV units. The availability/price of ROTV units versus literally anything else is staggering.
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  #5606  
Old February 27th, 2018, 12:27 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

The Drow Assassin has received 4 Yea votes to review (Scytale, BiggaBullfrog, superfrog, and wriggz) and moves forward in the process.
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  #5607  
Old February 27th, 2018, 04:47 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
To that end, I feel like a repainted Einar Imperium would be more acceptable than the Izumi Samurai, since their repaint would be about as easy as Tyrian's. The main problem is their availability, as others have mentioned. Just like with Tyrian and Samuel Brown, though, you can still use the figure as another member of that squad if you need to, so I believe that it's less destructive than modding or other techniques used to create new heroes, and I don't see any other options for making these two units a reality.
If this is allowed, which would surprise me, Please allow for all three sculpts to be used. Yes you could just throw it back with the squad, but I've seen countless Samuel Browns on ebay that use the other 4th mass sculpts, and they almost never sell, because they aren't the correct pose. If this gets passed, I'll paint up a squad, and give the other two poses to friends, or as prizes at the Utah Tournaments, and I'd rather I was giving away an approved sculpt/pose/figure.
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  #5608  
Old February 27th, 2018, 05:37 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
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Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
To that end, I feel like a repainted Einar Imperium would be more acceptable than the Izumi Samurai, since their repaint would be about as easy as Tyrian's. The main problem is their availability, as others have mentioned. Just like with Tyrian and Samuel Brown, though, you can still use the figure as another member of that squad if you need to, so I believe that it's less destructive than modding or other techniques used to create new heroes, and I don't see any other options for making these two units a reality.
If this is allowed, which would surprise me, Please allow for all three sculpts to be used. Yes you could just throw it back with the squad, but I've seen countless Samuel Browns on ebay that use the other 4th mass sculpts, and they almost never sell, because they aren't the correct pose. If this gets passed, I'll paint up a squad, and give the other two poses to friends, or as prizes at the Utah Tournaments, and I'd rather I was giving away an approved sculpt/pose/figure.
I think that this would make a lot of sense, and I was personally surprised to see that the same wasn't done for Tyrian in order to minimize the usage of Protectors of Ullar squads. To be fair, he got an official alternate sculpt using Atlaga, but since repainting Kiova the same way wouldn't really work, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to just post a card using each sculpt from the Einar Imperium, in order to make the process easier for everyone.

It would definitely be up to SoV if any alternate sculpts are officially allowed, though. I hope that this can be taken into further consideration when considering the availability of these sculpts, as it would make the figure significantly easier to attain.

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  #5609  
Old February 27th, 2018, 05:48 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The Drow Assassin has received 4 Yea votes to review (Scytale, BiggaBullfrog, superfrog, and wriggz) and moves forward in the process.
If the design is passed on to the testing phase, I have located around 40 more of the figure that I can acquire, and I'll probably find more, but I want to hold off until then so I'm not stuck with figures that I don't need.

Last edited by Leaf_It; February 27th, 2018 at 06:19 PM.
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  #5610  
Old February 27th, 2018, 06:00 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Drow Assassin is a really cool design, but I think @Matthias Maccabeus is probably already too strong.

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  #5611  
Old February 27th, 2018, 06:20 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Drow Assassin is a really cool design, but I think @Matthias Maccabeus is probably already too strong.
Was he the guy I heard about that ran entirely Drow Chainfighters at GenCon?
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  #5612  
Old February 27th, 2018, 06:21 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Drow Assassin is a really cool design, but I think @Matthias Maccabeus is probably already too strong.
Was he the guy I heard about that ran entirely Drow Chainfighters at GenCon?
Yup. Didn't do so great though. Chainfighters are good for the price, but only one attack per turn doesn't get much done.
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  #5613  
Old February 27th, 2018, 10:12 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Drow Assassin is a really cool design, but I think @Matthias Maccabeus is probably already too strong.
Was he the guy I heard about that ran entirely Drow Chainfighters at GenCon?
Yup. Didn't do so great though. Chainfighters are good for the price, but only one attack per turn doesn't get much done.
I would say second round of Day 2 in the Main Event is pretty good! I was there to witness it.
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  #5614  
Old February 28th, 2018, 05:03 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Thanks to the latest C3V Public Information post, I have checked RPGlocker.com and found another 34 figures for the Drow Assassin. That raises the Availability up above 200 figures.
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  #5615  
Old March 1st, 2018, 05:36 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Johann Graybeard by @DewNoHarm

Jandar brings in an old-timer to see if he's still got it.

Balance

Johann has no direct synergies, but it's definitely important to note that his Valiant personality fits him in with the 4th Mass, a group that is notoriously powerful and has few weaknesses, perhaps the biggest one being fitting into odd point totals. As a lone filler unit he seems like he fits at his low cost, with stats very similar to Otonashi. Recall Youth's Strength is a nice bonus but limited to once per round, and Rushing Shield Stun is a useful offensive ability but not reliable. From a Theoryscape perspective he doesn't look over- or under-powered.

Theme

I like the overall concept here of a warrior past his prime but still in fighting form. While the figure doesn't actually have a gray beard, it's easy enough to see the model fit the concept. Just enough stats and abilities for that one last hurrah is a good way to capture the theme on a unit.

Creativity

Nothing creatively ground-breaking here, but a solid package that gets across the theme well. While 'X' order marker powers should be used sparingly, it is arguably needed here as a means of tracking its use. The not-initially-engaged-with limitation built into Rushing Shield Stun is not only thematic but keep it from being overly potent as well.

Playability

As you'd expect from the design, there really isn't a reason to use Johann until you don't have much else to use. Which is normally what filler units do.

That's where the unit suffers, though. I don't expect much out of 10-point filler units; nobody does. But I do expect some level of the same thing I expect from any unit: I want my choices to matter. As an example, while Otonashi doesn't do much, Tricky Speed and Phantom Walk provides some possibilities for early sprints to take glyphs or chokepoints, and Attack the Wild can make you consider targets.

Johann's stats just aren't enough to activate him earlier in a game. Recall Youth's Strength doesn't give him enough speed to get to a glyph or next to a key target, and it only gets his attack value up to average. Once he's out there his 3 Defense won't keep him alive for very long. Rushing Shield Stun can crack a high-defense target, but not consistently enough to be a threat the opponent has to be wary of. The old man's stats and powers relegate him to a desperation move, or simply when you've got nothing else.

Which is fine in itself, and fitting for the theme and a 10-point filler. Where I have an issue is that while the powers are interesting and well-designed, with inherent choice points, those choices are negated by the fact that Johann is just a 10-point filler. Recall Youth's Strength has the interesting choice of when to sacrifice the bluff order marker at order marker planning and when to kick it off to make the best use of the boosts. For Johann, though, there really isn't a choice. Once he heads out, if he doesn't kill a lone target in one shot, he's probably dead the next turn. Saving the 'X' for a later turn doesn't make sense since he probably won't get one. If he's only getting one shot, you really should make the best of it, even if it costs the 'X' marker at a time when bluffing is the most useful.

Rushing Shield Stun makes out even worse. The chance to knock off defense dice is quite nice, and while not reliable it's still a decent chance. On a more potent unit it could serve as a defense-cracker or a threat, or both. Johann might get one lucky shot in, but again, he won't survive after that, so it's not enough for your opponent to take too seriously. The order markers spent just to position him to be a threat would be better spent elsewhere. On a figure with more Life and Defense, one's opponent would need to take the threat seriously. Additionally, with more Life it would be worth considering taking leaving engagement attacks from time to time, but as-is it's not just not worth the risk.

Summary

The theme here is solid, and I don't think Johann is too weak or too strong for 10 points. The problem I have with the unit is a deeper one; I don't think the powers are a good fit for a 10-point filler. The intrinsic choices built into each power are negated for a unit that doesn't have the stats to back them up. The one time you use Johann you send him after something within range using Recall Youth's Strength and hope to get a Rushing Shield Stun, and then just hope for the best. Ultimately he doesn't play much different than if he had no powers and slightly better stats. There isn't anything wrong with a unit like that, but I don't think it's up to the level of SoV induction.

I vote Nay to induct Johann Graybeard into the SoV.
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  #5616  
Old March 5th, 2018, 10:50 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf_It View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
Drow Assassin is a really cool design, but I think @Matthias Maccabeus is probably already too strong.
Was he the guy I heard about that ran entirely Drow Chainfighters at GenCon?
Yup. Didn't do so great though. Chainfighters are good for the price, but only one attack per turn doesn't get much done.
I would say second round of Day 2 in the Main Event is pretty good! I was there to witness it.
I played against the Chainfighter army at Gencon with a mess of Mezzodemons and Niflheim and the game came down to the very last figure. I had no idea how good the Chainfighter was until that day.
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