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  #4849  
Old May 14th, 2015, 02:12 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I feel like disengage would come from the speed of the swogs rather than from the orcs.

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  #4850  
Old May 14th, 2015, 03:44 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by William099 View Post
I feel like disengage would come from the speed of the swogs rather than from the orcs.
Well since pretty much all Orcs (save Grimnak/Ornak) have Disengage...

If I'm not mistaken, Su-Bak-Na's bio refers to him as the rider. I always thought it was the dragon (I always thought Su-Bak-Na was a dragon back then). Regardless, Wo-Sa-Ga's mere existence as a Hivelord should excuse Dok's Hivelord.

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  #4851  
Old May 14th, 2015, 03:47 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by William099 View Post
I feel like disengage would come from the speed of the swogs rather than from the orcs.
Well since pretty much all Orcs (save Grimnak/Ornak) have Disengage...

If I'm not mistaken, Su-Bak-Na's bio refers to him as the rider. I always thought it was the dragon (I always thought Su-Bak-Na was a dragon back then). Regardless, Wo-Sa-Ga's mere existence as a Hivelord should excuse Dok's Hivelord.

~TAF
All orcs on foot have it. But how dextrous you are on foot doesn't carry over to when you're sitting in a saddle. So it must come from the swogs.

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  #4852  
Old May 14th, 2015, 08:09 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by William099 View Post
All orcs on foot have [Disengage]. But how dextrous you are on foot doesn't carry over to when you're sitting in a saddle. So it must come from the swogs.
Can't it come from from how quickly you duck? Or how well you anticipate the swing? Or your ability to parry? Or the enemy's reluctance to take a swing when you are leaving? Or...

Disengage is not really about your feet.

But actually my assessments were based on statistics as well as story speculation. I looked at all the Orc units from Grut (the ones from Toril represent a different planet, different subspecies, different look, different everything). Let's just follow the numbers:
What gets Disengage?
• Disengaging mounted Grut Orc units: 75% (3/4)
• Disengaging non-mounted Grut Orc units: 75% (3/4)
• Disengaging mount units with riders that aren't orcs: 0% (0/8)
• Disengaging ridable-looking animal units without riders: 0% (0/10)
From these data we can answer some qualitative questions:

Does being mounted or unmounted change a Grut Orc unit's likelihood of having Disengage?
No. The incidence of Disengage in the Orc population is very high, and statistically independent of riding a mount.

Is a mount more likely to have Disengage when it has an Orc on its back?
Yes, profoundly. Every existing case involves an Orc.

Does it appear that the designers felt that fast, ridable animals were good candidates for Disengage in general?
No. The only time they granted Disengage to a mounted creature was under Orc ridership.

Even though my gut told me the results would go in this direction, I was still a bit surprised by those two zeroes. Outside of Orc ridership, not a single actual mount of any kind, nor even a single conceptual horse-like mount, has Disengage. Nor even Stealth Flying. (Full disclosure: Sir Dupuis does have a 70% version of Disengage, so if somebody wants to count that one horse as being extra special, go for it.)

Obviously Disengage is clearly a Grut Orc hallmark, just as Counter Strike is clearly a Samurai hallmark. If there were a mounted Samurai, I would not think that the unit's Counter Strike ability came from the mount, even if it had claws or a spiked tail. It's obviously a "Samurai thing." And the designers clearly didn't seem to think that four-footed creatures such as wolves, groks, gryphillins, dunadins, trolticors, hounds, horses, Marro horses, flying horses, and the like had any inherent ability to slip out of engagements.

So I'll have to stand by the idea that Disengage is a feature of Orcs, not swogs or velociraptors. Animals don't really back away very well; they generally run past you, or turn around to retreat, and thus would need an Orc on their back to parry your parting shot.


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  #4853  
Old May 14th, 2015, 08:56 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Uhm... yeah, anyways. What were we talking about again? Hivelords or something?

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  #4854  
Old May 16th, 2015, 11:52 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I am positive it is the mounts and after doing some quick research in the bios and SotM rulebooks. I came up with this.
From TKN's bio:
"In the heat of battle, as the giant Marro rips and slashes its way through the enemy, the awesome power of the giant Marro reveals itself. As the enemy thinks that victory over Tor-Kul-Na is imminent, the giant Marro rises up and begins eating the Marrden Nagrubs that have been gathering. Enemies watch, dazed and filled with new fear, as the wounds on the giant Marro instantly heal." ~(Hasbro)
It is a little ambiguous as TKN, the rider, and the giant Marro are both mentioned before the sentence says "begins eating the Marrden Nagrubs," but it specifies that the giant Marro's wounds are healed which implies the giant Marro did the eating.

From the Nagrubs:
"In the thick of the deadliest fighting, the giant Marro often takes up one of the Nagrubs and eats it and the huge tears on the Hivelord’s body heal before its enemy’s horror-filled stares." ~(Hasbro)
No ambiguity here. It is the mount, the giant Marro, that takes up the Marro and eats it to heal itself. The riders are not vampiric in nature. Wo-Sa-Ga, I don't think anyone would argue, does the same thing as the giant Marro though. She gobbles up the grubs. Now, I don't remember where I saw it and I could not find it quickly enough, but I am almost positive I read somewhere that Su-Bak-Na's mount is actually a modified wulsinu, the same species as the marrden hounds, and not in fact a reanimated dragon skeleton. This would mean that it is a living breathing organism that could eat the nagrubs to repair bodily wounds. For the sake of argument there are somethings I do not have answers for. For example, I don't know how the eating process goes. Does it eat the whole thing? I don't know, but the nagrub is destroyed, though.
Anyway, do with this information what you will. I don't know, to me, theme is just as important as mechanics. Just because you say it is a hivelord because it fills the role you want, does not mean that it should be a hivelord thematically. Again the custom and the sculpt are cool, but I think it would make more sense as an overlord, warlord, or a new marro class.

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  #4855  
Old May 17th, 2015, 12:03 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crixus33 View Post
From TKN's bio:
Yeah, I also went back and read the bio after I made my post, and that does indeed appear to be what they were thinking for TKN. The problem comes when we try to apply the same logic to Su-Bak-Na: it just doesn't make sense that an animated, undead dragon would heal itself by physically munching on living beings. Heck, the thing doesn't even have a stomach any more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crixus33 View Post
Now, I don't remember where I saw it and I could not find it quickly enough, but I am almost positive I read somewhere that Su-Bak-Na's mount is actually a modified wulsinu, the same species as the marrden hounds, and not in fact a reanimated dragon skeleton.
I actually hope somebody didn't claim that officially. It sounds pretty ridiculous.

Anyway, I was also going to point out that the Nagrubs don't say "we can be eaten by any big, living-or-undead-or-ambiguously-alive creature with a big stomach that is being ridden by a hivelord." They don't even reference eating at all. They basically just say "we can be destroyed by a hivelord." If there were an alternate figure of Su-Bak-Na without his dragon (not out of the question at all; it's a perfectly sensible thing to do with our extra copies of the figure who've lost their wings, which seems to happen a lot), and if that alternate version were still a Hivelord, then he would still heal by destroying Nagrubs.

So I suspect we have to allow both story explanations.


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  #4856  
Old May 17th, 2015, 02:39 AM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

I have the figure, and while he won't be popping them like peanuts, I can totally see him munching on some nagrubs.
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  #4857  
Old May 28th, 2015, 06:29 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
I'd like to re-nominate my custom Uzog



Uzog is a Durgeth who takes glee in killing his enemies. He likes to adorn his body with the skulls of his opponents, trophies of his latest victims. He can become so consumed that he can stop on the battlefield and take a trophy skull right then and there. Once he takes a Trophy Skull, he is on an adrenaline rush and his attacks become more ferocious.

He is single spaced, and can be found at Auggies(58 for 3.99), MM(9 for 3.00), RPG locker (34 for 3.95).
Did the name of this figure get posted somewhere?
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  #4858  
Old May 28th, 2015, 06:31 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

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Originally Posted by CrazyTankster View Post
Did the name of this figure get posted somewhere?
I'm not sure if it ever did; I had to find it myself.

Malagus Kreeg (Pathfinder Miniatures Lost Coast)
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  #4859  
Old May 28th, 2015, 06:39 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyTankster View Post
Did the name of this figure get posted somewhere?
I'm not sure if it ever did; I had to find it myself.

Malagus Kreeg (Pathfinder Miniatures Lost Coast)
Thanks!
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  #4860  
Old May 29th, 2015, 01:33 PM
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Re: Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

Never mind; wrong thread (sorry).


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